3rd Rail Announced SIEMENS "CHARGERS"

Looks like the first three-rail models.

This is great news - please also make the 301 in the 50th Anniversary paint scheme!

@RockyGN posted:

This is great news - please also make the 301 in the 50th Anniversary paint scheme!

Send an email to Scott at 3rd Rail!

I would love to get the MARC version but with no MARC cars I’m not sure. I guess I can ask Scott if new MARC Bombardier cars  would be offered in future.

I am hoping Scott offers the Cascades Talgo passenger set to go with the Washington DOT Cascades scheme.

This is HUGE!

+1 for the MARC version and for MARC Bombardier bi-level cars!

3rd Rail gives the disclaimer:

Some Photos Courtesy of brasstrains.com
Production is pending licensing by Amtrak
Permission by Siemens to Produce and Use Production Drawings

This is difficult to interpret. The licensing by Amtrak is a no brainer; they will get it. The problem is getting a license from Siemens. It is not that Lionel and MTH did not want to produce a Charger, the problem has been getting a license from Siemens at an acceptable cost to them. If 3rd Rail has secured a license from Siemens, then most likely the product will be made as there is certainly enough interest. If 3rd Rail has not secured a license from Siemens as of yet and is still pending, then the odds of SC locos being made go way down. 

Cool, but I still want Lionel to make a Legacy-equipped Vision Line model of the Charger. Maybe in the future. Also, the Surfliner, Via Rail Canada, and Brightline versions need to be made. Besides making a superbass unit for the Brightline train as well as a powered unit, I don't know how Lionel would pull off Brightline. Also, we need Siemens passenger cars for the new Chargers.

@Dylan the Train Man posted:

Cool, but I still want Lionel to make a Legacy-equipped Vision Line model of the Charger. Maybe in the future. Also, the Surfliner, Via Rail Canada, and Brightline versions need to be made. Besides making a superbass unit for the Brightline train as well as a powered unit, I don't know how Lionel would pull off Brightline. Also, we need Siemens passenger cars for the new Chargers.

I don't know how you can "vision that" but adding legacy is a possibility because its a single motored unit

FYI:

Amtrak licenses us per prototype and Livery. They just want to make sure we are going into production (have enough orders) before they officiate the specific License to us. So we use the verbiage "Pending...".  In other words, if we have enough orders, we will get license and produce.

As for Siemens, they are supportive of our effort to make a very accurate scale model of their handy work.

I hope that makes it clear. We hope to get lots of orders quickly to get this project off the ground.

Thanks for your interest and support.

OK can someone clarify that the Chargers sound like Dash 9's?

• "Multiple Road Numbers

• ABS BODY and FIXED PILOTS

• Ball Bearing Axles Journals

• Horizontal Can Motor Drive

• 3R ERR Cruise, TMCC, Railsounds (Dash 9 Specific)

• 2R - ESU Loksound 5.0 DC/DCC  Dual Speakers

• New Extreme Detail Cab Interior (Lighted)

• Smooth Operating, All Wheels Powered "

• And what about the "radiator light"?

@Bruk posted:

I am hoping Scott offers the Cascades Talgo passenger set to go with the Washington DOT Cascades scheme.

does that include that Fugly "Duck Bill" cab car or the "bat winged" tail cars?

I don't think Lionel or ERR has a charger soundset for 3rd rail to use.  Or if produced that it would have a proper soundset.  Example is the rdc  cars dont have the right engine sounds

This is a welcome surprise, now the hard part: Deciding just how many liveries to buy

@sdmann, Roughly how many road numbers per livery do you expect?

(And on the offchance: Is Brightline willing to license/sponsor out? I'd imagine not / or is cost prohibitive as it's not an option right now)

I'm in for one, but want to hear about the opportunities for a Brightline model before committing to a livery - whether it's an absolute 'no' for whatever reason, or if some paperwork still need filing before it can be listed.

~Chris

@prrhorseshoecurve posted:

does that include that Fugly "Duck Bill" cab car or the "bat winged" tail cars?

Id be okay if he didn’t. Just the transition cars and coaches would be plenty for me.

@prrhorseshoecurve posted:

OK can someone clarify that the Chargers sound like Dash 9's?

No, but its the closest you can get with ERR or a Lionel sound set.

If you want real recordings ESU DCC would be the best bet. Thats why I placed an order for one….

@SirCaptain posted:

This is a welcome surprise, now the hard part: Deciding just how many liveries to buy

@sdmann, Roughly how many road numbers per livery do you expect?

(And on the offchance: Is Brightline willing to license/sponsor out? I'd imagine not / or is cost prohibitive as it's not an option right now)

Depends on reservations but usually 4, so long as there are 4 different prototype numbers of the specific livery.

@prrhorseshoecurve posted:

OK can someone clarify that the Chargers sound like Dash 9's?

• "Multiple Road Numbers

• ABS BODY and FIXED PILOTS

• Ball Bearing Axles Journals

• Horizontal Can Motor Drive

• 3R ERR Cruise, TMCC, Railsounds (Dash 9 Specific)

• 2R - ESU Loksound 5.0 DC/DCC  Dual Speakers

• New Extreme Detail Cab Interior (Lighted)

• Smooth Operating, All Wheels Powered "

• And what about the "radiator light"?

They have a Cummins 4 stroke diesel but they are very quiet.  Noticeably quieter than the 20 plus year old P42s.  In 3-rail you're stuck with whatever Lionel licenses and a dash 9 is going to be closest.  But in 2-rail don't be surprised if ESU doesn't already have the correct sounds for HO.

Regarding sounds for the Siemens Chargers: the prime mover is a 4-stroke, 16-cylinder, Cummins QSK95. The Chargers have a K5LA horn and E-bell.

I think Lionel could pull off a Brightline SCB40 Charger set with two locos and four cars, similar to the Acela sets, but with diesel locos so the price would be quite a bit less. They should include a Stationsounds passenger car in the set as well.

VIA Rail's SC42 consists are run similar to the Brightline consists with a Charger on either end of the train.

Amtrak has ordered ALC42Es with either pantograph cars or battery cars for use on the Northeast Corridor, so they don't need a 3rd rail on sections so equipped. Lionel could model the ALC42E version but I don't think they would make this version.

Versions 3rd Rail should add later:

-Brightline (SCB40)

-Surfliner

-Coaster

-Exo

-Metro-North

-VIA Rail (SC42)

I look forward to seeing the ALC-42 models' final form.  I find their design intriguing and the new Amtrak schemes attractive.

Thanks,

- Mario

@Yellowstone Special posted:

You'd think that Amtrak California's most attractive of the Siemens Chargers, the Surfliner, would have been included, but oh no.

You can always send an email and ask for it to be added. The more of us that ask the higher the chance it can be a possibility. Scott and the team are wonderful in listening to requests.

For those of us wanting other paint schemes I suggest you do what I have done and email Scott Mann.  He is receptive to ideas and I am sure if it adds to the quantity needed to have these produced he will be favorable to adding a livery.   I am wanting the Amtrak #301 with the black scheme.

As far as Brightline, VIA, etc, those have a different front nose and would require new cars to be created also. While I would love to see these also I would expect that likely would be a whole other peoject.  But who knows?  Always worth asking.

Now, while service as an engineer on the historic PRR motors is honored, I get very tired of the nay sayers that emerge everytime those of us who want some current prototypes produced.  It is no longer 1940. It is 2022 and many of us want 2022 trains.  I have more GG1'S than I recall without checking my shelf.  They are wonderful and certainly well covered by models of all scales and wants.    If you are not interested in buying Amtrak or Chargers then stay on the Pennsy threads please!

@WBC posted:

The problem is getting a license from Siemens. It is not that Lionel and MTH did not want to produce a Charger, the problem has been getting a license from Siemens at an acceptable cost to them."

I think Sunset will be able to get it. From what I heard, Siemens likes to ensure that the models of their prototypes are accurate representations of the real thing. Bachmann’s SC-44 and ACS-64 projects were watched with a hawk’s eye by Siemens, even going as far as making the project a full collaboration. Those models turned out perfect because of it. I am sure it would be a dream come true for them (Siemens) to have their model be made by a boutique manufacturer such as Sunset 3rd Rail. I have a number of Sunset pieces and I have no doubt this engine will turn out to be another masterclass effort by them.

OK....We had several alerts to the bickering going on so we deleted those posts that seemed part of the problem.  We know some folks don't agree with what is being produced but why argue about it...just vote with your wallet or contact the manufacturer and give them your opinion.

I'd whined about 3rd Rail not making my favorite Amtrak California Surfliner Charger, then deleted the post on my own.

^ I'd say the odds of getting your Surfliner would be strong. We just all have to ask and if it is offered order it up.

Thanks for both of your responses, vash. 👍

I now hesitate to comment much regarding new Sunset projects as the list of demands from this forum often grows beyond what can become a realistic and reasonable project and actually be produced.  However, I will state that like all new product announcements, this is an evolving process.  For those that are not familiar with the 3rd Rail / Sunset process, buyer input before the project is finalized is not only common, it is welcome.

Having said that, the project will most likely be just ALC-42s and SC-44s.  They are essentially the same locomotive with different noses and some other fairly minor variations.  The Brightline and VIA versions are different enough to require different tooling and there are not likely to be enough orders to cover the changes required for that tooling.

Graphics for the website are in progress.  Three ALC-42 paint schemes will be eventually on the page; Phase VI, Phase VII, and 50th Anniversary "First Day".  Please be patient and give the process a few weeks.

SC-44 schemes could be added.  The Pacific Surfliner is certainly a possibility as is the Siemens demonstrator scheme.  Send your interests to 3rd Rail and the order page will evolve as it always does.  If you have placed orders there is always an opportunity to modify that order up until the time reservations close which will be a while from now.

Personally, I am very excited for this project and the opportunity to be a small part of bringing this very modern locomotive to the O scale market.

What is unclear is which Charger scheme will be made in the California DOT version.  The commuter rail routes under the California DOT umbrella are the Capitol Corridor, the Pacific Surfliner, and the San Joaquins, all of which operate Siemens Chargers.                          

Another vote for the Surfliner!

And I’m looking forward to getting the Coaster version too. I had been lobbying MTH for this set. Hopefully Golden Gate Depot will follow up with some matching Coaster Bombardier commuter cars.

C-44 schemes could be added.  The Pacific Surfliner is certainly a possibility as is the Siemens demonstrator scheme.  Send your interests to 3rd Rail and the order page will evolve as it always does. 

WOW! Is the Siemens Demonstrator Scheme different from Amtrak Midwest? IT looks very close as I google it!

@prrhorseshoecurve posted:

WOW! Is the Siemens Demonstrator Scheme different from Amtrak Midwest? IT looks very close as I google it!

Yes, the demonstrator scheme is almost the same as the Amtrak Midwest scheme.

Here is an example which is probably the one you saw.  Siemens SC-44 Demonstrator

@GG1 4877 posted:

Yes, the demonstrator scheme is almost the same as the Amtrak Midwest scheme.

Here is an example which is probably the one you saw.  Siemens SC-44 Demonstrator

Probably because it became Amtrak Midwest 4611.

Rusty

I guess this would be of general interest to readers of this topic... Here's an email I sent to Scott Mann:

I'd probably get a set of Lionel Superliners with the Stationsounds Diner to pull with my Charger engine. I want either the Day 1, Phase VI, or Phase VII versions.

Talked to Scott this weekend.  If you are interested in a complete Brightline train i.e., 5 cars and 2 locomotives let Scott know.

Note that artwork is now up for the various schemes currently being offered which should clarify any confusion there was before.  Enjoy!

Surfliner ordered.

Now we need the Surfliner cars, Scott ....

THANKS!