UPDATE ... March 2024: 3rd Rail SD40-2's

@GG1 4877 posted:

Unless other orders come in, we can pretty much consider this project dead.  Everyone says they want modern or modernish locomotives, but the orders haven't yet seem to support that notion with 3rd Rail at least.  If Scott could get the orders it would go for sure.  Granted the SD40-2 is not exactly modern.  I was 2 when it was first catalogued.  However, it has had such a long life span like all the -40 series EMDs, I am surprised it has not seen much tractive effort so to speak.

Of course, Amfleet was something I pitched to Scott over 5 years and once the Viewliners were added, it took off and will be delivered by April.  Perhaps there is hope?  I have preorders in for ATSF in 3r and Conrail in 2r.  Might have to add another 3 Rail ATSF one just to get the orders up by at least a little.

Well it over four years since this offering was posted on the 3rd Rail web page. I’ve upped my order from two to four to Try to help but that’s small in the greater scheme of things if we are hundreds of reservations short of commerciality. I’d love to see this offering happen but it just doesn’t excite the customer base. I also think other offerings are competing for the same $s. The Alco FA hasn’t reached the numbers needed either.  Even if this SD40-2 project appears “dead”, I think it’s time to officially Declare it Dead and Remove it from the web page. Release those Reservation $s. My $s will get Redirected to other projects - hopefully helping them reach an “it’s a go” moment and moving them to design and production !!!!!!!  Hopefully other clients will redirect their released reservation $s to other projects too.

Scott. Time cancel it !!! Try to see if other projects get a bit of a boost from that. Boy we still have Lots of cool projects out there to buy into !!!!!

What does everyone else think ???????  🤔

Cheers 🙂

I have 2 2-rail SD40-2's reserved and this is the only model that interests me from 3rd Rail at the moment so if this project is declared dead and buried I will not redirect my money towards any other 3rd Rail projects.

@catnap posted:

I have 2 2-rail SD40-2's reserved and this is the only model that interests me from 3rd Rail at the moment so if this project is declared dead and buried I will not redirect my money towards any other 3rd Rail projects.

I agree.  It's time. Too many do overs of RS3, F3, F7, E8.  Second Generation Diesels are lacking.

Wait just a minute...

I'm not ready to give up just yet. In 2021 we'll make the Krauss Maffei, the EA /EB, E1A/B, F3 rerun, then there's a gap. I suspect that is when I will do a short run of SD40-2 and later FA/FBs. It's foolish for me to throw away reservations. That's like throwing away your customers. People start to get upset if their orders are cancelled on them. Not gonna do that.

Just wait, it will happen I think.   Scott Mann

@sdmann posted:

Wait just a minute...

I'm not ready to give up just yet. In 2021 we'll make the Krauss Maffei, the EA /EB, E1A/B, F3 rerun, then there's a gap. I suspect that is when I will do a short run of SD40-2 and later FA/FBs. It's foolish for me to throw away reservations. That's like throwing away your customers. People start to get upset if their orders are cancelled on them. Not gonna do that.

Just wait, it will happen I think.   Scott Mann

YAY !!!!  
Thanks for a FAST Positive response Scott. Your quick positioning of a SD40-2 run in 2021 (now just around the corner) is important for those that have gotten Weary with the Wait - Myself included. Not that long ago you asked you ask if we’d be upset if it was canceled and replaced with another model. I Really want my MP and Frisco SD40-2s but till now, that happening looked pretty Dismal !!!  So moving on became an option.
Hopefully SD and FA runs won’t have to be run together as I have large (for me) orders in both - run together the budget is blown.

And I appreciate your sharing the production “pecking order” too.  Been awhile since we’ve seen one of your “update “ emails. It would be good to get all this info out to your base.  Says Choir member to the preacher -  Just sayin......

@TrainBub posted:

Well it over four years since this offering was posted on the 3rd Rail web page. I’ve upped my order from two to four to Try to help but that’s small in the greater scheme of things if we are hundreds of reservations short of commerciality. I’d love to see this offering happen but it just doesn’t excite the customer base. I also think other offerings are competing for the same $s. The Alco FA hasn’t reached the numbers needed either.  Even if this SD40-2 project appears “dead”, I think it’s time to officially Declare it Dead and Remove it from the web page. Release those Reservation $s. My $s will get Redirected to other projects - hopefully helping them reach an “it’s a go” moment and moving them to design and production !!!!!!!  Hopefully other clients will redirect their released reservation $s to other projects too.

Scott. Time cancel it !!! Try to see if other projects get a bit of a boost from that. Boy we still have Lots of cool projects out there to buy into !!!!!

What does everyone else think ???????  🤔

Cheers 🙂

"Cancel It !!!"  That can be a tough call. Dollars are always coming available as other projects get delivered or people discover 3rd Rail offerings. I know I was willing to wait  for the recent Challenger and so are many of the SD40-2 buyers for theirs. But, I FEEL young, not my age. For its' business model, a more precise BTO, 3rd Rail needs to keep projects in the pipeline.  Maybe, as someone on the forum suggested, Scott could show a count down of orders needed to push a project over the line. That might help focus dollars. Ultimately, there has to be interest. Who knows why once started a project  gets stalled.

Scott,

That’s like an early Christmas present! I’m also glad to see the reservation thing put to rest.

RM

That's certainly encouraging news. If this happens then I may just add a third SD40-2 if it meant a certain road name being done. So far I have 3 in mind.

Even if 2021 is a no-go for the SD40-2 what harm is there in keeping the model on the website? Either you want the model or you don't and I want it so if that means waiting another year or two then I'm OK with that.

In interested in UP/Mopac, I’d be all in for Illinois Central Death Stars!!!

Well it’s nice seeing this pot stirred a bit.
To get it to “bubble up” a bit might attract a few new reservations and maybe get some that placed previous reservations to place another order or two. Anything to make the offering more viable.  

Scott, Many thanks for the positive news!

Happy Holidays to all

Glad the boss told me I was wrong!   I want to see this project go forward as much as anyone!

@GG1 4877 posted:

Glad the boss told me I was wrong!   I want to see this project go forward as much as anyone!

Well Scott’s comment 10-28-20 indicated he was having doubts ..... BUT the Boss decided to give it a go after all. Perhaps stirring the pot a bit has brought in some more reservations. I’d like that to be true. It’s a business after all.

Scott,
Just to stir the pot a Wee Bit More. We’ve 17 models to choose from and that’s really Great. I’m sure the GP Monster offering has been very trying to execute and QC ...... But..... There might be a few Roads that could be Added to the SD 40-2 offering - say bring up to 20. I know that’s a lot but it Might help get some precious numbers. What pops to the top that are missing from the offering are SP, DRG (if not Tunnel motor variant), and CNW.  There are others but I grabbed only what quickly Hit me with reservation potential in original buyers category.  

Any takers for at least these three ???  If so - EMAIL Scott !!!   If we are maxed out with options - so be it.
My two bits worth.

@sdmann posted:

Wait just a minute...

I'm not ready to give up just yet. In 2021 we'll make the Krauss Maffei, the EA /EB, E1A/B, F3 rerun, then there's a gap. I suspect that is when I will do a short run of SD40-2 and later FA/FBs. It's foolish for me to throw away reservations. That's like throwing away your customers. People start to get upset if their orders are cancelled on them. Not gonna do that.

Just wait, it will happen I think.   Scott Mann

Scott how about h10? When will we see it?

Well found out SP and DRG  were ALL Tunnel variants. So much for that idea. 😖☹️☹️☹️
gotta try.....

The railroads to add would be

MISSOURI PACIFIC original scheme, no dynamic brakes

MISSOURI PACIFIC no dynamic brakes, repainted in UNION PACIFIC colors

GTW logo on ex-MP without dynamic brakes, in UP scheme

GRAND TRUNK WESTERN GTW full blue and orange repaint

SOO LINE original 1969 paint scheme

Chicago & North Western 1970's scheme variations

After an examination of the roster list I checked on the history of the CN painted GTW 5938 that is shown as a choice.

CN 5171 became KCS 6620 then became GTW 5938

Perhaps it could be offered in the original CN scheme and number, plus the KCS scheme and number, to get the most out of the distinct variation.

GTW 5937 or GTW 5936 should have been a choice as well.

Andrew

@sdmann posted:

Wait just a minute...

I'm not ready to give up just yet. In 2021 we'll make the Krauss Maffei, the EA /EB, E1A/B, F3 rerun, then there's a gap. I suspect that is when I will do a short run of SD40-2 and later FA/FBs. It's foolish for me to throw away reservations. That's like throwing away your customers. People start to get upset if their orders are cancelled on them. Not gonna do that.

Just wait, it will happen I think.   Scott Mann

Scott, Super excited to hear this might be a go later in 2021.  :-)   As mentioned to you earlier, I am in for CN and IC variants.

@Mike DeBerg posted:

Scott, Super excited to hear this might be a go later in 2021.  :-)   As mentioned to you earlier, I am in for CN and IC variants.

Sounds great to me Mike! Gives me hope the IC may be a possible write-in. I put in for 3 of them.

@vash44 posted:

Sounds great to me Mike! Gives me hope the IC may be a possible write-in. I put in for 3 of them.

Good luck getting a road to a needed minimum number required via “write-ins”. This forum gets Some exposure but may not be enough. You need to get Scott to add your specific wants on to his webpage with a real reservation option. To do that will require a lot of emails and write-in reservations. Yah I know it’s complicated.  Total numbers, numbers for each road, diff details.......... etc.   You need some more exposure !!!!  Just saying........Good luck. You have a bit of time.

Scott: Don't guess that there's a chance you'll end up with MTH's former S Helper Service models?

Through the grapevine: American Models is starting to look for a buyer too.

Now just where is that gigantic lottery win when I need it the most?

Joe

@TrainBub posted:

Yah I know it’s complicated.  Total numbers, numbers for each road, diff details.......... etc.   You need some more exposure !!!!  Just saying........Good luck. You have a bit of time.

I wonder if something like instant runoff voting would help getting production numbers up.  Everyone who submits an order would rank the road names they want.  Then, whichever ones get the most votes based on ranking, would get made if they meet the thresholds.

Offering just updated. Check out website.
more offerings, scheduled for 2021, Very Modest price bump.  
Time to step up people!!!! It’s starting to roll !!!
Bravo Scott !!!!

http://www.3rdrail.com/reservation.html#SD402

On Santa Fe version, Please include a Painted (to match) A/C unit in box for customer to install if it is not going to be factory installed. Yellow is impossible to match.   Life Like did this with their Proto 2000 GP60 locomotives.

@TrainBub posted:

Offering just updated. Check out website.
more offerings, scheduled for 2021, Very Modest price bump.  
Time to step up people!!!! It’s starting to roll !!!
Bravo Scott !!!!

A HUGE thank you to Scott! Illinois Central is coming! Hope it can hit the required reservations! Very excited for a chance to have nicely done and updated Death Stars!

Glad to see this is back from the brink.

There are some interesting variations not shown.  If you google around enough, you can find several other high-nose variations of of the SD40-2, including 2 N&W paint schemes, 2 CPRail schemes.  As for other paint schemes, I'm surprised not to see the EMD Demo unit and the Rock Island. The RI scheme is a very eye catching red and Demo units always seem to sell well for Scott in the 1st Generation units.

I'm willing to help proof the CAD and the SOU artwork if/when it all comes to fruition.  Scott - you know how to reach me.

The Canadian National number series to make should have been the CN 5300 number series.

That is the Grand Trunk Western GTW 5900 number series.

Andrew

I may be the only one who does not know- but what is the min curve for these fixed pilot SD40-2's?

Thank you.

Paul

@Railrunnin posted:

I may be the only one who does not know- but what is the min curve for these fixed pilot SD40-2's?

Thank you.

Paul

Paul, these are going to be 072 minimum recommended curves for 3 rail and 54" radius for 2 rail versions.  That is typical for all the 6 axle 3rd rail locomotives of this length due to the drive system.

@DaveJfr0 posted:

Glad to see this is back from the brink.

There are some interesting variations not shown.  If you google around enough, you can find several other high-nose variations of of the SD40-2, including 2 N&W paint schemes, 2 CPRail schemes.  As for other paint schemes, I'm surprised not to see the EMD Demo unit and the Rock Island. The RI scheme is a very eye catching red and Demo units always seem to sell well for Scott in the 1st Generation units.

I'm willing to help proof the CAD and the SOU artwork if/when it all comes to fruition.  Scott - you know how to reach me.

Dave,

As always when it comes to Southern, we will talk!

Now that the heavy lifting of the Amtrak project has been completed.  I have been directed by Scott to begin research on this project which starts with a design matrix.  If you have any information you would like to send, road number requests, knowledge of road specific details, photographs, etc. my email is in my profile.  It will take a few months to get the full matrix together, but the more we can incorporate now, the better the project will be.  I always start with a library of photos from my own collection of books as well as what I can find from the internet and those who have good photos and other information to share.

While I can make no guarantees that every variation can be captured, as always Sunset tries to bring as much road specific details and paint schemes that the tooling can accommodate.  Tooling has come a long way in its flexibility since the prototype of the first plastic shelled project in the E7 of 2011.

Excited this is moving forward!

@GG1 4877 posted:

Now that the heavy lifting of the Amtrak project has been completed.  I have been directed by Scott to begin research on this project which starts with a design matrix.  If you have any information you would like to send, road number requests, knowledge of road specific details, photographs, etc. my email is in my profile.  It will take a few months to get the full matrix together, but the more we can incorporate now, the better the project will be.  I always start with a library of photos from my own collection of books as well as what I can find from the internet and those who have good photos and other information to share.

While I can make no guarantees that every variation can be captured, as always Sunset tries to bring as much road specific details and paint schemes that the tooling can accommodate.  Tooling has come a long way in its flexibility since the prototype of the first plastic shelled project in the E7 of 2011.

Excited this is moving forward!

Johnathan,

A daunting task, I'll bet. In addition to road name variations, there are probably variations for each road name as equipment and appliances were added or removed over the locomotive's service life. So those choices will have to be made. I'll likely email you some thoughts and suggestions on the Santa Fe versions. Thanks in advance for all your efforts on this project. It is indeed exciting to see it move forward.

RM

Rich,

I'd enjoy seeing your input on this project.  Era is always an issue.  We have been moving towards as-built on recent projects as of late, but it really is about what era will generate the most interest.  I have lots of ATSF books now so if you want to point out pages from certain books I should be looking at or past issues of the Warbonnet, that would be really helpful.  I am a member of the Santa Fe Railway Historical & Modeling Society so I have about 18 months of back issues.

Wisconsin & Southern and the SOO LINE 1974-1988 scheme were added since I last checked.

I was hoping to get one of the SOO LINE SD40-2 as built and painted in 1972-1973.

Andrew

The illustration of the CNW SD40-2 make it look like the color scheme will be the 1980 to 1990 "Safety Yellow" or ZITO yellow scheme.

How likely is that going to the the color scheme?

Would Original Yellow from the 1970's be the actual color scheme?

Andrew

Andrew,

You are not the first person to ask this.  At this time, the plan is to have the original CNW yellow on the locomotives.  More people seem interested in that version.  It helps that Scott already has the formula for the original paint color based on past CNW projects.

Hope that helps clarify!

@GG1 4877 posted:

Paul, these are going to be 072 minimum recommended curves for 3 rail and 54" radius for 2 rail versions.  That is typical for all the 6 axle 3rd rail locomotives of this length due to the drive system.

Ok... I'm gonna ask it. Whats the difference in the drive system between a 2 and 3 rail one, besides the wheels, that makes the 2R one need another 36" to turn around? I'm really asking because I'd probably buy one of these, but owing to the fact that my 2R layout was a re-lay of a 3R one, the min radius of it is 36" (O72). Its what? 17" long?

Its a bit apples to oranges because of the drive setup, but several MTH and Atlas 6 axle diesels will do 36"R without any issue (even ones that say bigger on the box). If this drive can do O72 for 3 rail, what is different with 2? Does the 3R one omit details and hanging bits that get in the way?

The only difference is the scale coupler, electronics, and the wheels being all flanged.  The Kadee couplers have slightly closer coupling.  You probably could get a two rail version to go around a shorter radius with a long shank Kadee coupler. However, having all three axles flanged is the real issue I believe.  When I modified an MTH GE 6 axle so that all the axles had flanges it no longer would go around an 072 curve.  Having said all that, I understand that 3rd Rail 2 rail locomotives run on a 48" radius if the track is laid well.

Hi Folks,

I confirmed today that we will be making tooling for both the SD40-2 and SD40T-2. So SP, D&RGW, UP will be Tunnel Motors with longer Chassis, Tank and Rear with accurate details.

Please reserve your "TUNNEL MOTORS" at the link below.

http://www.3rdrail.com/reservation.htm