3rd Rail Nine Volt Battery Removal Question

It's not a bad idea to remove the 9V batteries, but I wouldn't get too worked up about it.  9V batteries are considerably less likely to leak than the 1.5V cells, and the batteries are normally in a simple clamp, not in a battery box that will kill the device they're in.

If you do want the functionality of a battery, but don't want to worry about ever changing it, consider this.

YLB - RailSounds Battery Replacement

Experiences vary with respect to taking shells off 3rd Rail F7's. Veteran techs do it in their sleep. Hobbyists can learn to do it too if that's where their interests take them. Before trying to take mine off I researched screwdriver sets here on O Gauge Forum to make sure I had the right tools before I (literally) screwed something up. Below is a link with more discussion of taking the body off a 3rd Rail F7:

Link to post

I recently watched a new YouTube video by Norm Charbonneau titled

“The Chronicles of Norm #20 - 3rd Rail B&O T4a Mountain”.  

At 9:49 in the video Norm shows what may happen to 9 volt batteries if left in an engine for a long period of time.  I also strongly recommend removing batteries from all engines that will be stored for any length of time.

I didn’t post a link to or imbed the video here since Norm is a member here (@Norm Charbonneau)   and I believe that he should be the person to do that if he so desires.

@GregM posted:

I didn’t post a link to or imbed the video here since Norm is a member here (@Norm Charbonneau)   and I believe that he should be the person to do that if he so desires.

WHAT????  Norm or any other Youtuber won't mind you posting their videos on their behalf.  More views we get the better it is for us.

Thanks to all of you who have replied. I will also write to Scott and ask his opinion. I would rather not take off the F7 shell.

J

I removed the batteries from my 3 rail 3rd Rail diesels that don't have access via the removable top hatch.  My FL9s had batteries that had just started leaking.  Those date back to 2013.  My FTs from 2014 did not have leaking batteries yet, but I took them out anyway because I don't get many opportunities to run them these days. 

F7s date to 2016 for the first run.  Mine are 2 rail so no batteries.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

It's not a bad idea to remove the 9V batteries, but I wouldn't get too worked up about it.  9V batteries are considerably less likely to leak than the 1.5V cells, and the batteries are normally in a simple clamp, not in a battery box that will kill the device they're in.

If you do want the functionality of a battery, but don't want to worry about ever changing it, consider this.

YLB - RailSounds Battery Replacement

John, I checked out the link for your YLB. I just want to verify that the $44.99 is for 6 units.Is this correct?

@milnyc posted:

John, I checked out the link for your YLB. I just want to verify that the $44.99 is for 6 units.Is this correct?

Don't you wish!  I believe that's their quantity in stock.

@Jerryrails posted:

I saw a video made by a 3rd Rail enthusiast who advocated removing nine volt batteries from 3rd Rail locomotives if they will not be in use. I do think it is a good idea to remove batteries from all locomotives if they will be out of use for a while. I have removed the nine volt battery from my 3rd Rail E6 locos and from the Alco PA's. They have easy none volt battery removal from the rooftop. The 3rd Rail F7's would have to have their shells removed to take out any batteries. Does anyone know if the 3rd Rail F7's shipped with batteries inside? Do you take out your F7 batteries if you only run those units once in a while. I do not run them often, but removing shells is not my cup of tea.

Chances are good the battery was shipped inside the unit. If you have your units in long term storage, GET THOSE BATTERIES OUT!

I have found batteries in their steam engines since 2007 and can tell you batteries are in the first run SD7/9, PA-1, GP7/9 & E6.

I found batteries in several runs of the Sunset E8's that I did some lighting upgrades on.

I recently took apart three Sunset 3rd Rail locos that had been stored for years with the 9V batteries. One was okay. One corroded but did not corrode anything else. One had a kind of clear liquid discharge under it without corrosion. I side with those who say for long term storage, take them out. That's also what 3rd Rail recommends in their manuals.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Don't you wish!  I believe that's their quantity in stock.

$44.99 is the price for one.         Quantity available in stock is six.

6/$44.99? That would be the deal of the century, I'm sure they would be completely sold out at that price!😁

@Gary P posted:

$44.99 is the price for one.         Quantity available in stock is six.

6/$44.99? That would be the deal of the century, I'm sure they would be completely sold out at that price!😁

They'd sell out quickly because I'd be losing a bunch of money on every sale!

Many thanks to all who have responded. I am trying to remove the shells from my 3rd Rail FL-9's. I have removed six large screws and the body does not budge. There are numerous very small screws that look like they are there to hold add on appliances. Does anyone have a suggestion? I will email Jonathan. Thanks, again.

I initially had a tough time getting the shell off my Third Rail E7. I describe how I overcame it in my post in the link to the thread below. There is also discussion regarding which screws need to be removed. Pay close attention to the tiny screws on the underside up front. Taking it slow and thinking it through is an asset. You can also take a look at the Norm Charbonneau video posted above in this thread. He had a tough time getting the shell off a tender of a B&O steamer by Third Rail. If a guy like him has to drop back and think through getting a shell off, you know you are in good company.

Getting the shell off an E7

I don’t my vids getting linked at all. I have been trying to film and document all my efforts lately but can’t really explain why. Maybe I am trying to upload to my train consciousness to our future AI gods.

In any case I wholeheartedly advocate for removing batteries in TMCC engines that will operate in a command environment. In my projects, I am adding auxiliary pickup rollers so a ‘keep alive’ for Railsounds is not needed. I also recommend removing batteries in anything for long term storage. The T4a and one of the K4 vids show what can happen when a battery is left to rot for an extended period of time. You need to remember that a 9V battery is actually six batteries in one!

We made our last attempt at removing the shell from my 3rd Rail FL-9. We not only took out the screws referenced above, we took out any screw that could remotely be related to the chassis. We then spread the shell away from the chassis and found a sticky residue all the way around the bottom of the shell that was clearly adhering there shell more tightly to the chassis. I know they would never purposely do that so it must have been the primer or the paint on the inner edge of the shell that moistened at some point becoming  sticky. Though we were able to spread the shell slightly using exact blades, there was too much area still stuck to the edge of the chassis making removal without cracking the shell a major worry. In the 4end we left the shell on. ****

So, my plan now is to acquire some of Gunrunner John's battery replacement circuits and send my FL-9 to someone who really knows what they are doing. Boy this was unexpected. Shown below for informational purposes are photos of the FL-9. Upper left, a screw that appeared stripped when I began. Upper right, one of six large screws I removed. Two in the back, two behind the fuel tank and two in front of the fuel tank. Bottom left, small screws that appear to be holding appliances in place and not holding on the shell. Bottom right, one of two very small screws that probably do hold the shell on.

Here are photos of the innards of the L-1 0-8-0 tender. The writing on the large chip is

1020AP

9717

P61SK031

Here are the photos of the boards in the Q-4b 2-8-2

And yes, I can see the black and white stripes on the flywheel.

@Jerryrails posted:

We made our last attempt at removing the shell from my 3rd Rail FL-9. We not only took out the screws referenced above, we took out any screw that could remotely be related to the chassis. We then spread the shell away from the chassis and found a sticky residue all the way around the bottom of the shell that was clearly adhering there shell more tightly to the chassis. I know they would never purposely do that so it must have been the primer or the paint on the inner edge of the shell that moistened at some point becoming  sticky. Though we were able to spread the shell slightly using exact blades, there was too much area still stuck to the edge of the chassis making removal without cracking the shell a major worry. In the 4end we left the shell on. ****

What an experience. What an anomally. Did the FL9 come to you from the factory or second hand? Can the seal be cut with an exacto knife or is it so tacky that passing a blade through it does not disturb the bond? Just by way of brainstorming, what if a bunch of narrow wedges were inserted around the periphery of the chassis to create a thin gap between the chassis and the shell? In theory, that might disengage enough of the adhesive to make the shell separable from the chassis. Maybe something like plastic dental picks would be a good choice for wedges. They are thin, made of slippery plastic, and less prone to break off like the tip of a toothpick might. If the wedges are short enough (or if you snip the excess length off), you could set the model on its wheels and try to separate the shell from the chassis with gravity pulling down on the weight of the metal chassis, motor, and trucks. As you point out, you have to exercise to judgement to decide when the risk of cracking the shell becomes a concern.