3rd Rail Rock Island EMC TA

From the Car Builders Encyclopedia 1940 edition 

I will make better scans for Scott of this material  Taken in Peoria by Montigue Powell (c) Four Ways West 

The Peoria Rocket, Chicago, Illinois to Peoria, Illinois
Articulated 3 car set:
- 32 seat Baggage-dinette-coach #400 Joliet
- 60 seat coach #306 Ottawa
- 76 seat coach #300 La Salle

Non Articulated:
- 32 seat, 1 drawing room, parlor, buffet, observation car #450 Peoria

This is the descriptor in the post on the Sunset website.  If I understand it, it means 3 articulated and 1 two truck  observation car.   (total: 4 cars)

Erik - was your 3 car set, pictured immediately above in your photo, articulated between the two coaches? 

It appears at least initially Scott is proposing the 4 car set as per the 1940 encyclopedia drawings.

Rusty Traque posted:

Must be something in the air.  Kato is planning an N Scale version of the TA Rocket...

Rusty

It's funny, I posted in Erik's E5 thead about wanting this train a couple of weeks ago. Incidentally I emailed Division Point suggesting it too, Jack was super nice but said of the 3 trains That I was interested in the only option right now would be the Krauss Maffei.

Commonwealth passenger car trucks 

Consist details 

Kitchen-dinette 

60 Passenger Coach, second car of the 4-car Rockets 

76 Passenger Coach second car of the 3-car Rockets and third car in the 4-car Rockets 

Observation-lounge car used on both 3/4 car Rocket consists 

76 Passenger Coach interior 

Dinette section of first car 

The furniture in the Observation-lounge car is upholstered in a variety of colors and patterns 

Priceless input, Erik.

Perhaps it would be worth it to swap the picture on 3rd Rail's website for this one to avoid confusion as to what is initially being offered?

Scotts website appears to already use that picture and clearly states the consist being offered, with the large amount of SD40-2s built and modified over the years it will be interesting to see how much detail specific the actual models that are reserved  enough to get built will be. Just saying!

hibar posted:

Scotts website appears to already use that picture

No, it doesn't. It shows the modified TA with Mars Light.

I replaced the modified TA with the pictures you guys suggested. Lots of interest, so looks like a 2017 production.

Scott Mann

It amazes me that when a suggestion is made to an importer that that they say not way until they put it out there and it becomes very popular. I suggested at the Chicago show earlier this year of doing short passenger train consist for smaller layouts. Here we are and Sunset has a HIT! Now a Wabash Blue Bird with all lighted domes! Easy train to do for a manufacture, or maybe a modern Amtrak consist.

The key to success is to put it out there and let the customers determine if it will be a success, if not cancel it!

Stephen

And if MTH were to have attempted this set you would probably see:

An incorrect E8

An incorrect 70' combo car

An incorrect 70' coach and

An incorrect BoatTail observation car.

rdunniii posted:

SANTIAGOP23 posted:

rdunniii posted:

Original unless sufficient people reserve sets requesting the Mars light.

The engine.... Brass?

Not plan A.

I would suspect both as the Mars light was added within several months of the delivery of these units as the schoolbus accident article points out in 1937 and they ran for over 20 years with the Mars light, Erics HO model pictures show the Mars light version obviously reservations will dictate what gets made.JMO

SANTIAGOP23 posted:

hibar posted:

Scotts website appears to already use that picture

No, it doesn't. It shows the modified TA with Mars Light.

I missed that!

That's great news Scott thank you for building these fine models for us. 

hibar posted:

rdunniii posted:

SANTIAGOP23 posted:

rdunniii posted:

Original unless sufficient people reserve sets requesting the Mars light.

The engine.... Brass?

Not plan A.

I would suspect both as the Mars light was added within several months of the delivery of these units as the schoolbus accident article points out in 1937 and they ran for over 20 years with the Mars light, Erics HO model pictures show the Mars light version obviously reservations will dictate what gets made.JMO

The only references I can find about the Mars light being added is "within a few years."  The article in the May 1980 Model Railroader qualifies that with "by 1940."

Rusty

Thank you Scott

Because we live in a strong liability phobia environment, it would be our intitial thought that a business would take immediate action to exercise due diligence to prevent or minimize accidents. In those days decisions were without the fear of liability. I'm not saying that is a good thing, it was just the economic reality of the "time". 

So, eventually, Mars lights were installed.

Rusty Traque posted:

hibar posted:

rdunniii posted:

SANTIAGOP23 posted:

rdunniii posted:

Original unless sufficient people reserve sets requesting the Mars light.

The engine.... Brass?

Not plan A.

I would suspect both as the Mars light was added within several months of the delivery of these units as the schoolbus accident article points out in 1937 and they ran for over 20 years with the Mars light, Erics HO model pictures show the Mars light version obviously reservations will dictate what gets made.JMO

The only references I can find about the Mars light being added is "within a few years."  The article in the May 1980 Model Railroader qualifies that with "by 1940."

Rusty

   The blogs posted by both Eric and SANTIAGOP23 seem to indicate the Rock Island was one of the early users of the MARS light, the latter link is especially informative.

Further consist research provided from Doug Bauer and David Lotz at Railway Classics

CRI&P 1937 "Rockets" as delivered 

Des Moines Rocket: 4 car consist 

TA, #401 Norman Judd, #307 Greenville Dodge, #301 Henry Franum, #451 L.M. Allen Chicago to Des Moines service starting 9/37

Kansas City Rocket: 3 car consist 

TA, #404 Arrow Head, #304 Chippewa, #454 Minnesota -Minneapolis to Kansas City service starting 9/37

Kansas City Rocket (2): 3 car consist

TA, #405 Mesaba, #305 Ioway, #455 Missouri -Minneapolis to Kansas City 9/37

Peoria Rocket: 4 car consist 

TA, #400 Joliet, #306 Ottawa, #300 LaSalle, #460 Peoria- Chicago to Peoria Illinois service starting 9/37

Rocky Mountain Rocket: 3 car consist 

TA, #403 Bear Lake, #303 Mount Evans, #463 Pikes Peak as delivered for Kansas City and Denver service 10/37

Rocky Mountain Rocket (2): 3 car consist 

TA, #403 Cimarron River, #303 Chisholm Trail, #463 Sooner State, after naming for Kansas City and Dallas service in November 1938

Texas Rocket: 3 car consist 

TA, #402 Dream Lake, #302 Mesa Verde, #452 Centennial -Fort Worth and Houston service starting 8/37

Texas Rocket: 3 car consist 

TA, #402 Cherokee Strip, #302 Sunflower State, #452 Lone Star after renaming for Kansas City and Dallas service staring 11/38

Further notes about TA fleet research provided by Doug Bauer and David Lotz at Railway Classics 

-TA diesel full Rocket scheme with stainless side panels-modernized nos- #601, #693-606 as modernized with Mars light and lower headlight in 1938

-TA diesel "Texas Rocket" scheme with stainless steel side panels modernized nos-#602 as modernized in 1938 with Mars light, lower headlight and "Burlington/Rock Island" lettering 

-TA diesel Full Rocket scheme with stainless steel side panels #601, 603-606 as delivered August through October 1937

-TA diesel Full Rocket scheme with stainless steel side panels nos-#602 as delivered August through October 1937 

 Post 10/38 modernized with Mars light very little changes to build in 1937  

Photos courtesy: (c) Morning Sun Books and Lloyd E. Stagner used expressly for reference only.

Emery Gulash 

Emery Gulash

Photos courtesy: (c) Morning Sun Books and Lloyd E. Stagner used expressly for reference only. 

Thos. R Lee collection 10/37 Mr Kindig rear of Denver Rocket at DUS  

#606 shown leaving DUS 11/27/37 Mr Kindig from the Thos R Lee collection  

8/37 DUS Mr R H Kindig, Thos R Lee collection 

All photos are copyright and used for reference only (c) Those R Lee and his amazing book Rock Island Westward Volume Two

Erik C Lindgren posted:

Commonwealth passenger car trucks 

To my knowledge I don't believe these have ever been produced in O Scale only 17/64 by Graceline. And even at that the Graceline trucks are not Exact missing the extra length of brake gear. 

Great pics !   Have always admired Dick Kindig's photographic work.  Delightful to contemplate the paradox represented by the last South Park 3' gauge passenger train to Leadville left Denver Union Station only 7 months earlier - - April 1937.

Santiago's 2nd photo shows the interesting comparison to contemporary motor cars of the era. The Rock Island Rocket, although looking somewhat dated by today's standards, was very futuristic at the time. One can see why 1000's of people lined the tracks to view Hiawathas, Zephyrs, and Rockets.

And folks think obscure models cannot be done in O Scale.  Next thing you know, the Delaware and Hudson water tube steamers will be coming out of Sunset - probably right after that Wabash thing.  Please, please do not make a model of that ugly thing I saw in Portland last year.

Based on the success of the Train of Tomorrow sets this looks like a winner for Scott also, I believe the largest percentage of these sets will go to 3 railers/collectors.JMO

I wouldn't call this engine obscure, neglected maybe.

This is nothing less than the F unit blueprint c'mon! 

With all due respect to Johnny Cash, IMHO the Rock Island Rocket TA made CRI&P a "mighty fine line." I'm delighted that this train set will be available in 2017. I've ordered mine as a three-rail version with a MARS light, if offered.  Thanks, Scott!

Mike
(ritrainguy) 

nw2124 posted:

It amazes me that when a suggestion is made to an importer that that they say not way until they put it out there and it becomes very popular. I suggested at the Chicago show earlier this year of doing short passenger train consist for smaller layouts. Here we are and Sunset has a HIT! Now a Wabash Blue Bird with all lighted domes! Easy train to do for a manufacture, or maybe a modern Amtrak consist.

The key to success is to put it out there and let the customers determine if it will be a success, if not cancel it!

Stephen

"The key to success is to put it out there and let the customers determine if it will be a success, if not cancel it!"

And that Wabash set could have an even better price point as the tooling already exists correct?

nw2124 posted:

It amazes me that when a suggestion is made to an importer that that they say not way until they put it out there and it becomes very popular. I suggested at the Chicago show earlier this year of doing short passenger train consist for smaller layouts.

The key to success is to put it out there and let the customers determine if it will be a success, if not cancel it!

Stephen

Perhaps a 7 car San Diegan would be a perfect way to offer the most requested ATSF E1 and a much needed pendullum car in other road names...

The 7 car San Diegan would be an excellent choice for Scott.JMO

Agreed !!!!

Scratch built Pendilium car 

I would be great if we could get opening roof hatches.

Would love to hear some more details about this project from 3rd rail