4449 Question For HotWater

Here are two videos, both from May 89. The first one is the SP&S whistle. The next one is what I believe is the NP whistle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78y1bDrLmTo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Efu1j6DPyic

@STGuyII posted:

Was 4449’s SP&S Hancock 3 Chime replaced with the NP one in May 1989, while laying over in Sacramento after visiting LA?

No. The whistle from SP&S #700, was removed prior to departing Portland, whatever year it was. We would not have done something like that while on the road.

If you watch videos of 4449 heading to LA, vs when 4449 pulled the Sacramento jazz trips later in May, the whistles sound very different. The undertone sounds different as well (The flat top and Steptop whistles sounded different).

Hard to explain that. Maybe the steam pressure was down a bit?

I’m pretty sure 4449 had her SP&S whistle while visiting LA. Was it actually the NP one?

@STGuyII posted:

I’m pretty sure 4449 had her SP&S whistle while visiting LA.

That would depend on what year you are referring to. When the PRPA folks got SP&S #700 restore and fired up, the SP&S whistle was removed from SP 4449, and returned to their group (whatever year THAT was), there in Portland. The late Dick Yager had a Northern Pacific whistle off one of the NP articulated locomotive, so that whistle was installed on the Engineer's side. That NP whistle was carried for many, MANY years until our Corporate Attorney, Martin Hansen, found a genuine SP GS whistle (including the Vilco air-actuated steam supply valve). Once the original SP GS whistle was carefully refurbished, the NP whistle was removed and returned to Dick Yager's widow.

Was it actually the NP one?

Too long ago for me to remember. All I do know is that we NEVER changed whistles on the road. However, we DID remove the big Santa Fe whistle from the Fireman's side, at San Louis Obispo, California, on April 26, 1977 and returned it to the guy who owned it. He was being sort of a jerk, so his whistle was removed, right there in the depot, and handed to him in front of the big crowd, wrapped in rags since it was still very hot.

@STGuyII posted:

I'm pretty sure the whistle sounded like it did from the Sacramento jazz trips and while heading back towards Portland as well. I don't think it had to do with pressure. Unless they were deliberately keeping the pressure down for whatever reason. Any other ideas?

My first thought is, there are some pretty crappy videos/recordings from back then. There is no way anybody can, or should, judge the sound of ANY steam whistle under such conditions.

Here's another video of 4449 heading toward portland on the west valley line. can you Identify which whistle it is here possibly? https://youtu.be/X9C0uuw56RQ?t=86

Again, depending on the year the whistle is either the SP&S 700 whistle, until it was changed out for the NP whistle.

For what it's worth, I'm not sure where you are going with all this. I stated when the SP&S whistle was changed out, i.e. at Portland, OR, and any subsequent videos/recordings would be of the NP whistle. Also, it you desire to hear fully accurate sound recordings of 4449, I suggest you seek out the recordings done by the late Brad S. Miller, of Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs.

The year was 1989, and yes the quality of the video is pretty poor. Based on what you said, it’s most likely the SP&S whistle. What I do know is that the NP whistle was installed by November 89, as I found a video of 4449 that clearly shows the design of the whistle during its trip then. So most likely it was installed after the May 1989 trip. When exactly did they fire up the 700?

@STGuyII posted:

The year was 1989, and yes the quality of the video is pretty poor. Based on what you said, it’s most likely the SP&S whistle. What I do know is that the NP whistle was installed by November 89, as I found a video of 4449 that clearly shows the design of the whistle during its trip then.

From what I remember, the SP&S whistle and the NP whistle looked the same, i.e. they are both Hancock 3 tone deep whistles. How were you able to see the difference?

So most likely it was installed after the May 1989 trip. When exactly did they fire up the 700?

Too long ago for me to remember, but you might try their website, and ask them.

The SP&S whistle was a step-top design, the NP was a flat-top design. If you don’t know what that means I can explain.

@STGuyII posted:

The SP&S whistle was a step-top design, the NP was a flat-top design. If you don’t know what that means I can explain.

I know what that means, but I don't remember the SP&S 700 whistle being a "step-top".

Then again, after all these years, I really couldn't care, as I have listened to the various whistles on 4449, 844, and 3985, for way too many years. To be honest, I much prefer to listen to the exhaust!

Haha. 700’s whistle is indeed a step-top. Here’s a pic.  

@STGuyII posted:

Haha. 700’s whistle is indeed a step-top. Here’s a pic.  

OK, you got me! Guess I remembered incorrectly, as the NP whistle was also a Hancock step-top, according to previous discussions on another forum (Trainorders.com).

Now,,,,,,,,back to my original question; what difference does all this make???????

Sorry to bump this thread a bit, but just one more thing I’m curious about. I understand from you you guys didn’t change whistles on the road? Not that this really matters much, did Dick Yager ever carry his whistle in the Tool Car is a backup or maybe just for show? Also as a side note I don’t believe 4449 went to LA with her NP Whistle, as they still had the SP&S whistle in 1989, the last time 4449 went to LA sadly. We’re there any LA trips after 1989 that we’re planned but cancelled?

@STGuyII posted:

Sorry to bump this thread a bit, but just one more thing I’m curious about. I understand from you you guys didn’t change whistles on the road? Not that this really matters much, did Dick Yager ever carry his whistle in the Tool Car is a backup or maybe just for show?

No! Dick kept his whistle/whistles at his home.

Also as a side note I don’t believe 4449 went to LA with her NP Whistle, as they still had the SP&S whistle in 1989, the last time 4449 went to LA sadly.

Again,,,,,,just my opinion but, I think you are beating a dead horse!

We’re there any LA trips after 1989 that we’re planned but cancelled?

Who knows. Water over the dam now.