577 Whistling billboard help

Tom

I assume this is an American Flyer Whistling Billboard.  I have a AF 762 and think it is the same as yours.  This is two tone whistle and uses two buttons, one for whistle and one for a solenoid that opens an air door to change the tone, a least that is how mine works.  I will look to see if I have a electrical diagram.  Below is a link that may help you.

https://www.modeltrainforum.co...ring-diagram.200571/

Hope this helped.  I think you can search for AF 577 and find a instruction sheet as have a partial one.

Charlie

Thanks for reposting that thread Charlie. I was just about to look for it since it has all the pictures I took and posted on this subject.

Tom

I checked the wiring of my AF 762

motor coil -  green wire with push button switch for whistle

ground at light bulb  -  yellow wire

Solenoid coil - red wire with push button switch for second tone

I do not know about a switch for the sign lights as I had to put my AF whistle inside a mountain and do not use the sign lights.  In the mountain was the only place I had for the whistle and this not good as the whistle sound is muffled quite a bit.

I think you can search for AF 577 and find a instruction sheet as have a partial one.

Here is a OGR post on the AF Whistling Billboard

https://ogrforum.com/...9#183452411059951989

Charlie

Don't know if the attached photos I found online  will help.  My 577 is packed away and I don't have an internal wiring diagram for one.  External diagrams are aplenty on the internet, but I figured that's not what you're asking for.  Good luck.  Hope you get it whistling again soon.  

@Choo Choo Charlie posted:

Tom

  I will look to see if I have a electrical diagram.  Below is a link that may help you.

https://www.modeltrainforum.co...ring-diagram.200571/

Charlie

@AmFlyer posted:

Thanks for reposting that thread Charlie. I was just about to look for it since it has all the pictures I took and posted on this subject.

Charlie and Tom,

Thanks for posting the link to you previous posts on this subject from the ModelTrain Forum.  I copied the picture Tom made of the underside of his 577 and have it on the workbench… just what I needed.  I have taken out all the old wiring, including the green wire to the coil.  I checked the wiring on my 566 and concluded it is wired with 24 AWG, that’s what I’m using for the 577.  Then this morning I looked at Tom’s 577 picture again and I think the green wire is a heavier gauge.  Any guesses?  The green wire on my 566 is the same gauge as the yellow and black, 24 AWG.    Wonder why the older whistle would have used a heaver gauge wire to the coil.  The green wire on Dave’s 566 is also looks heavier.  I am the original owner of my 566 and know the wires are original.  Any thoughts on this?

While rewiring this thing I noticed that Gilbert was inconsistent with their wring code.  Generally, black goes to the base post, the ground, but on the whistles, they used a yellow wire to ground the motor and base.  And then, a black wire runs to the ‘normally’ live side of the light with a yellow jumper to the second light.  Curious…

Thanks again,

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

From memory, I think the green, yellow and black wires are all the same gauge, the green wire just has thicker insulation. I need to verify that.

The yellow wire connects to the transformer 15V Post, the black wire to the transformer Base Post, the Green wire to the control button, then on to the Base Post. How the wires are landed inside the accessory is irrelevant to the Gilbert wire color usage. Remember, even if some of the metal in the whistle is connected to the yellow wire it is ok because with 2 rail track the metal track ties are insulated from both rails so there can not be a short.

When I get home after this trip I will get out one of my 577's and meter the connections and metal frame to see if any wires actually are connected to the frame. In the interim we should avoid the term "ground" unless we are referring to the house ground. No Gilbert transformers were ever made with a ground connection. The transformer chassis floats, it is not connected to any of the transformer winding wires. The Base Post is simply the zero volt reference for the fixed and variable voltage posts. In most Gilbert dual transformers the two Base Post terminals are internally connected but in some Gilbert transformers they are not.

@AmFlyer posted:

The yellow wire connects to the transformer 15V Post, the black wire to the transformer Base Post, the Green wire to the control button, then on to the Base Post. How the wires are landed inside the accessory is irrelevant to the Gilbert wire color usage. Remember, even if some of the metal in the whistle is connected to the yellow wire it is ok because with 2 rail track the metal track ties are insulated from both rails so there can not be a short.

When I get home after this trip I will get out one of my 577's and meter the connections and metal frame to see if any wires actually are connected to the frame. In the interim we should avoid the term "ground" unless we are referring to the house ground.

No need, here is a picture of your 577:

Yellow goes from motor brush to base via the light fixture.  But I am curious about the AWG of the green wire.

Now on to Coffee Grinder Whistling Billboards...

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

The 577 is finally working after a protracted adventure with one of the brush springs.  The light bulbs are not original and are of two different types.  One has a small globe while the other a large globe, both are 14V -- no other markings.  I thought I would be able to find the proper bulb in one of my repair books, however that is not the case.  so I'm asking if anyone knows what bulb did Gilbert use?

Thanks,

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

My 1950 577 came with Gilbert #453 bulbs. These are the small 7/16" globe, 18V. The modern equivalent replacement bulb number is the 1447.

Thanks, Tom.  Where did you find the answer?  I tried the Greenburg AF repair manual. Tom Baker's repair book and didn't find anything about light bulb usage.  I was really surprised to find I had no reference for bulbs.  I was pretty sure the two 14W bulbs were wrong, the smaller one burned really hot.

Anyway, thanks again,

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

I cannot find it on any website either. Here is how I know. For Christmas of 1950 I received a 1950 version of a 4611A set. This 1950 version is so far undocumented in any Gilbert research, but I have one with the receipts. It was purchased at Kaufmanns in Pittsburgh. It differs from the 1949 version by the substitution of a 632 hopper for the 629 cattle car and the inclusion of a 577 billboard in the set box. The 577 was wrapped in the Gilbert tan paper but not in a box. This set was only used for one week each Christmas and my dad wrapped everything up in the OB's. I took over that duty when I got old enough. I still have one of the original bulbs and when one burned out I did the replacement.

So the answer, at least for this 1950 577 is first hand knowledge of the original and only owner.

That's interesting... does that mean there is no listing of bulbs for Gilbert Flyer equipment anywhere?  As I said, I was really surprised one of the repair manuals didn't have the info.  Maybe I should start another thread...

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

The original Gilbert instruction manuals all have a bulb list. Unfortunately none of the manuals have the illuminated billboard in the list.