5V PS/2 Board Failure Causes

I'm guessing this would be the Railking 30-1164-1, it seems to be the only one with 5V PS/2.  I think you should be able to get $75-$100 for it, and recoup much of your loss.

That is an nice-looking engine.  I also bought a used one at York.  Given the price of a 3-volt replacement board & the price of a new loco, you might want to study whether repair/upgrade might be worthwhile, especially if you can do the work yourself.  Do be aware that PS3 replacement boards may be coming later in the year.

Nick, I was suggesting that's the price range you could sell the locomotive for. :-)  To replace it with a 3V board, you need the board set (with 5V connector shells), the 4 ohm speaker, and the battery/charging port for 3V.

New, a similar loco lists for about $459.  Probably could be had for $399.  I will say it's a bear to upgrade an in-loco board vice an in-tender board.

I was not aware that PS3 replacement boards are due to be released.  Does anyone have any additional information on this?

Don't give up on it.  I understand that GGG has upgraded one of these board-in engine locos.

Fran, late in year, per MTH statement at York.

Sales says they are due to be released.  Service still has PS-2 board kit that will be made. The whole definition of soon is up in the air.   G

I realize this has been a topic of intense discussion but let me ask the following question.

In the grand scheme of things surrounding the quantity of 5V boards out there and still running around layouts and on shelves everywhere, does anyone reallly, now really have to worry about owning one! Buying one un-tested I believe could be a problem so for sure know what you are getting, but beside that is this really a huge issue for a buyer/owner?

Hugh, my personal is still yes.  I still regularly regularly get 5V equipped locomotives with dead boards for repair, and most are a 100% write-off and replacement of the boards.  I've personally had three of the 9-10 5V equipped locomotives I have put their feet up for no apparent cause and require a replacement board.  Mine were all locomotives that were running normally within weeks of when they were just dead.  You also see stories here about folks that bring a 5V one off the shelf and it's dead.

I personally avoid purchasing 5V stuff unless it's cheap enough that I can see my way clear to replacing the board and still not feel I overpaid for the locomotive.  For the end user that will have to pay someone to replace the board, that computation is different than it would be for me.

John.

Interesting perspective but I guess that you and George who have done a volume of repairs over the years might have seen more than most. I have only seen a couple in my time and could always find a reason other than the capacitors as the issue board went bad, so my experience does not qualify as a benchmark here. Especially since I am out of the repair business.

Let me ask this then...

If you drew a curve over time on the 5V dead board repairs considering of course a ramp up in your business, does the curve stay constant or does it ramp up as time goes on. Other words, is the issue getting worse as time since manufacture grows longer?

I don't say it's the capacitors primarily, just that the boards fail and are unrepairable due to the way the sandwich is constructed.  The 3V boards can be separated and thus you can get to all the components for a much higher percentage of repair possibilities.

George has a much longer history on these boards, so he probably has better trend data.  From my more limited observations and experience, I stay away from the 5V boards if possible.

Hugh, While I do keep repair records, I don't analyze it for trends.  I only look for failure mechanism and symptoms so I can figure out a repair faster.  But most of that information gets stuck in my head:-)

As John stated, you still get them in, and folks are not happy especially when they say it was low hrs, or worked fine when I put it away.   G

Thanks George,Thanks for your reply.

I really just was looking for a gut feel. Do you get one every so often or have they been ramping up over the years.

I just don't think the world of PS2 5V owners should become overly concerned with the engines they own. S---! happens! and that is the way it is with electronics. Mechanics too, just look at hard drive failures.

If you have a 5 volt board could you just replace the capacitor and probably not have the cap go bad?

Only if the cab actually was the root cause. 

GRJ, I thorught that a failing cap was the root cause of 5-volt board failures, and that the boards weren't repairable.???????

I said I suspected that a number of the failures I have were bad caps and then the diodes croak.  So, if that is indeed the case, replacing the suspect 330uf cap would potentially prevent that particular failure.

I looked at my junkbox of 24 5V failed board sets. Nine of them had the bulged cap, and all nine of them were the same brand, WinCap.  There were at least two other brands of caps in the remaining 15 boards, however NONE of them were bulged.  There were three or four WinCap caps that appeared normal as well.

I find it a bit tough to swallow that the other 10-11 boards with a different brand cap never suffered the same failure if it's not at all related to the cap.  I'm sure there are a number of failure modes, I know for a fact that several of these boards went up in smoke when the output FET croaked from a motor stall or shorted lead.  I successfully repaired one of three that had that failure, it's very difficult to get the new FET and heatsink on without killing it, at least for me.

Would the voltage regulator be a problem too or is that in the a different place that wouldnt cause a problem?

There can be any number of components that are a problem.  The VR that's on the umbilical is easy to swap to see if it's a problem.

Many times, you can see smoked diodes in the middle of the board sandwich.

Maybe thank can be tested but I think you have to put voltage in them to test each leg to see if thats a problem.

I just bought a 30-1188-1 challenger that has sound, light and smoke but no movement in conventional and it can't be found with the DCS remote. Did swap the battery so not sure what is wrong.

Dan

Try the reset that it shows in the manual.

Yep, already tried that.

I wonder what the flash memory is for with your system?

I don't know for the train. I work with flash on the bios for the computers I build but you have to be able to find the engine with the remote to reprogram them. I don't have any manual equipment to do this with them.

Dan

I am getting tired of this flash stuff and all of these board problems with O scale. When they started Proto 1 it should had never had a battery. This should had started from track power and charged some capacitors up before it would even moved. Using a battery, its like using a flash ligh, no technology to figure this out I guess. Maybe I should had stuck with HO scale.

When PS1 and even PS2 came out, I don't think that the high-capacity super capacitors we now have were readily available.

Did you try a recover engine to see if you can get DCS to find it?  G

Not sure what you mean?

Recover Engine is a feature of the later versions of the DCS software. 

MENU

SYSTEM

ENGINE SETUP

RECOVER ENGINE

This function searches for an engine with a corrupted ID that can't be recognized by the DCS and brings it back from the dead.

Sorry, but following this procedure does not work.

• Power on the DCS Remote 

• Press the Menu button and use the thumbwheel to scroll to SYSTEM. Press the thumbwheel to select it

• Use the thumbwheel to scroll to RECOVER ENGINE. Press the thumbwheel to select it

When I follow that verbatim, I don't find those entries.  Your list specifically starts with a power on.  If I follow that script, I don't get to home plate.

It is wrong in the electronic copy as well.

You have to add the step for ENGINE SETUP for it to be correct.

John,

OK, I see what you mean. However, the reader is already in the Engine Setup Menu in the book. That's why it works if one is using the book.

Regardless, it needs an additional line of instruction in the next edition.

Thanks!

That's all it is Barry, just a missing line.  I'm sure they'll find it, but if he's a real new user, that might be confusing.

The first time I needed the RECOVER ENGINE, it took me a couple minutes to find it.

I'm at work right now, will try that when I get home. Went to the LHS I bought it from and they told me I had to handle this with MTH, no help from them. Now I have to drive 70 miles to another if this Recover doesn't work.

Dan

Why drive to another hobby shop?  Call MTH and ship it back to them, clearly that will be cheaper than a 140 mile round trip! 

I guess I figured it would cost me 50 bucks (X2) for shipping/insurance and I think her car will do that, besides I like to see the people I'm talking to/dealing with. I've bought from these guys before at the different shows and I would like to see their shop at least once.

Dan

OK I just checked UPS and it would be about $30 (X2) not $50.

I believe return shipping on warranty repairs is paid by MTH, it is by Lionel.

drodder, I wouldn't assume that any LHS can handle this.  Many will just forward it to MTH.  I suggest you call before driving over.

You're correct, GRJ.  $30 sounds expensive.  Check with the Post Office.  Sometimes, they are substantially cheaper