6 Months with Legacy Review

Agreed

Peter

I have them both as well. I don't see the same gap between the two as you do. They both work well for me and I leave it at that. I agree that DCS is a bit more robust and  the will allow better train operations when running multiple trains on the same track.

Steve

I could not agree more!

 

Happy railroading,

Don

I certainly enjoyed reading your review.  It was very thoughtful and you drew some interesting comparisons.

I don't have dcs, only legacy, so i am very curious about the dcs "Ferrari"  features. What are they? Thanks!

I'm a bit curious about that also.. can you be more specific?

 

 """After 6 months of Legacy, our experience is that - we love it.  It is a very robust and consistent command system."""

 

I'm also curious about who LI Steve is agreeing with.. OP said he found the Lionel system to be the robust and consistent one... and nothing about DCS multi train operation..

 

"" I agree that DCS is a bit more robust and  the will allow better train operations when running multiple trains on the same track.""

       
       


The point of the post was just to give a 6-month update on our Legacy experience. For fear of digressing or derailing this thread and turning this into a "Legacy can do that too" debate, I will name some of the cooler (to me) features of DCS - regardless of whether Legacy has them or not:

It is a two-way system so you get feedback from the engine.

It tells you engine run-time in scale miles as well as how long the engine has been electrified/on.

It allows you to accurately measure DCS signal strength.

It allows the engine to function as a multimeter, allowing you to accurately measure voltage at every spot along your entire layout.

Instead of speed steps which don't correlate to anything in the real world, it runs and measures the engine's velocity in actual and accurate scale miles per hour.

It has Doppler effect, which I just started to use and it is waaaayyy cool.

It allows you to customize/change chuffs from I think 1 - 16 per revolution.

You can be your own conductor - with the press of a button, you actually speak through the locomotive's speakers, announcing stops or anything else you'd like (unless, of course, you set the volume too high, which will cause the train to spaz and no longer respond to commands without shutting it down and restarting).

You can hook up your iPod or other similar device and play music or the news or whatever through the train speakers. Last Christmas, I had Christmas tunes playing from the locomotive (well, at least until it decided that the same loop it had been running on for 20 minutes was now "out of range" and then somehow also decided the train was "not on the track").

It has random crew talk that just automatically plays when the engine is stationary or in motion. You don't have to press a button. It's as if there are people actually on board that just speak whenever they feel like it. Sometimes it freaks out the wife - she'll say "shhh, did you hear that? Someone is outside in the backyard."

Allows you to adjust virtually every single function from various settings, to auto, to on/off.

Engines, after spending a period running consistently over say 30 scale mph will automatically revert to a clickety-clack sound.

Peter

Cool. Thanks for sharing and informing me. I really was not interested in starting a legacy v. dcs pi%%ing contest.  Your info was great!

Great information.Our club layout has both systems and I love them both

Bill Lazenby

pandprr.com

i too was using DCS for a long time just after I purchased Cab1. Since I could run Lionel thru DCS I stopped using the Cab1 controller. Then major changes to the layout forced me to stop using either one for well years.

A few weeks ago, I cleaned up the track as DCS would not find any engines; so as I had purchased Cab2, a few years back, I tried it and found that it had issues; so back it went to Lionel. In the meantime i resurrected Cab1. Cab1 was now controlling the Legacy engines.

 

Just last week my Cab2 returned to life from Lionel. I discovered that I had no idea how it worked. I am rereading the manual and hopefully I will graduate and begin wiring WiFi and using my Ipad, just in time for DCS WiFi to be released.

 

I need to get back to DCS as well.

I too have both system and like them both.  As you stated Legacy is a turn key and starts every time.  Enjoy!!

Legacy now works all the time. DCS should  find some way to air-signal as opposed  to track-signal without infringing on patents.
IMHO

I don't know what the limitations of BlueTooth are but it would seem to me that, as easily as it works with every other device on the planet, it might be a feasible option to run trains.  The controller talks directly to the loco and track is used for power only.

 

To say on topic, I also have both and like each one.

 

Dave

 

I posted on the DCS page asking for EXACTLY this information a while back, and didn't get half as much information.  Thank you.  I did get Zero replies when I asked which of those features people actually used.

Peter,

Great concise review of DCS. I enjoy both operating systems.

Frank

Great review! Thanks for posting it!

 

I have CAB 1 and DCS, and thought about getting the Legacy system. This may make it easier.

When the Munoz Lines was in operation I used Legacy and DCS all the time. I held the DCS remote in my right hand and Legacy in the left. All switches were thrown using DCS which functioned flawlessly EACH and every time. I ran primarily Legacy locos. 

 

On the next layout (Munoz Lines 3) I will use three control systems (DCC on the two rail line) not counting Don Julio who will provide liquid refreshment. That's an entirely different thread.

 

Scrappy

Good comparisons but I don't need to buy a hardcover book to run legacy and I don't have to stand in front of my engine for 15/20 minutes trying to get it to move. If you like DCS, that's fine but give me the simple life. I am up and running.

Thanks for the comparison.  I agree and also have both. 

 

Art

Interesting point, Jim.  I have both DCS and Legacy systems, and like certain things about each one.

 

To counter your point, with DCS, I love the fact that you can just place a new engine on the track, "find it", and BAM...all of that engine's information is completely loaded into my hand-held.  Whether it's a PS-2 or PS-3 engine, a full description including road # is all right there.  And the remote knows if it's a steam engine or a diesel, and therefore, which features to show on the remote for that particular engine.  Press Start-up and off I go.  Heck, I can even assign it a new Engine ID#, too...and do all of this in somewhere between 15-30 seconds!! 

 

There are no modules to load (and potentially misplace) into the remote (for Legacy engines), and there's no need to manually enter ALL information (for TMCC engines) by having to scroll through several screens to let the remote know what type of engine it is (steam vs. diesel, etc.), what version of RailSounds it has, and what mode you wish to operate it in...and that's only the first step.  Then you have to scroll through the letters, #'s and special characters to type in a name and cab #.  This is NOT the "easy life" to me!

Great Review, Thank You.

As stated whatever you like is fine with me.

I also started in O-Gauge in 2008 with DCS, and then added Legacy in 2012 - and I really like them both. However, whereas I get the occasional DCS “Engine Not On Track” and similar messages, I never have had any problems accessing a Legacy locomotive.

 

I think the DCS AIU’s are great. With each unit, which are relatively inexpensive, you can control 10 turnouts AND 10 accessories. Better yet, I have never had a problem or lack of signal with the five AIU’s I have.

 

For me, though, the absolute best part of DCS is the RECORD & PLAYBACK feature. I have three of these R&P sessions recorded and routinely play them back for my guests. It is so nice to be able to watch the trains run through a variety of operations, including control of turnouts and accessories, all on their own, while I talk with my guests.

 

If you have DCS and have not tried the Record-Playback feature, give it a whirl – you will like it. Two drawbacks are: (1) if you make a mistake while recording, you have to start from scratch to fix the mistake. And (2), the system allows for only three sessions to be stored, and unfortunately there is no way to save them as to a computer or other device so more than three could be saved.

 

Alex

I've thought about doing this with some of my locomotives, and I believe Bachmann trains now has BT stuff for trains.  But my personal experience with BT has been that if you are not right next to the items connecting, then you loose connection.   As in my wife's phone has to be right next to the computer to connect, my phone and watch have to be within 10 feet to stay connected, I have to be in the car to have my phone and car connect (Which isn't a bad thing in this case.), and there can never be any walls or other items in between the connected devices or the signal fails.

 

But back to topic, I got TMCC, and it wasn't really that big a deal, I still ended up preferring to run conventional.  Then I got my 1st Legacy steamer and the command set, and I've been hooked.  It is truly an amazing system.

Alex,

Have you tried the record and playback function on the Legacy Remote? Just wondering how it compared to the DCS version in regard to accuracy, etc.

 

 

 

No, I have not. I believe that the Legacy system uses 'elapsed times' as the basis to control the events, and I don't believe that would be suitable to successfully and reliably perform all the things I have the trains do.

 

DCS, on the other hand, uses the actual number of revolutions of the locomotive motors for controlling when things happen. I have a R&P session that lasts about 17 minutes, it runs two trains, which start and end at the same locations within a couple of inches after having traveled 275 feet and 550 feet. The trains crossover between the dual main tracks, pull into sidings, sound the horns, bells, etc.

 

Alex  

Interesting question.  I haven't heard anybody discussing having used the record feature on Legacy.  My son has used the feature on DCS extensively, but never Legacy.  Hope somebody has some experience they will share with us.

 

Art

PJB,

   I am an original DCS user also, invested in Legacy this past year.  Because I am a professional Welding Engineer with a heavy electrical back ground, I look at the DCS & Legacy in a little different manner, mainly because they work on completely different engineering disciplines/principles.  Your comparison using cars is not quite what I would do, however it was a great way of getting your point across.  The real differences is that DCS is a more  complex engineer unit, however the Legacy is more user friendly, both have their advantages, I am actually really glad there are two different companies in our hobby that have engineered remote control units in different ways to make our hobby more interesting.  I love the over all DCS Unit, especially for running old Conventional Tin Plate engines and new P2/P3 engines at the same time.  The new Legacy engines are just fantastic and with the new wireless FasTrack low voltage Command Control switches, controlled from the Cab2, Legacy is just out of this world cool.  The combination of both is seriously great engineering for our hobby!

PCRR/Dave

 

Mark, yes, Legacy and DCS can be run simultaniously.  Great review Peter.  I use both systems and can't say I favor one over the other.  As mentioned they use different operating platforms and aren't apples to apples.  I like DCS because I can "mix" the various sound volumes i.e. horn, bell, chatter, to get a perfect balance.  Love DCS station stops.  Love the newer Legacy engines where you press and hold Aux-1 and get the automated whistle/bell and comments like "We're on the move".

 

Great Post!

Rich

 

The Lionel and MTH systems actually please different personality types. 

 

I will never like DCS. I can tolerate it, but actually skip MTH locos sometimes because of it.

 

I am familiar with it. I still don't care for it.

 

I am not a curmudgeon. 

 

 

I thought you have the DCS commander, not the full-blown system.

Sorry to stray off topic a bit here...

 

Something to keep in mind with BlueTooth is that it's devices come in 3 classes.  Most low cost devices are class 3, such as head sets, bluetooth keyboards and mice, and such. Some higher end versions of these products will have class 2 radios.  class 1 is only found on very expensive units and only when you are specifically looking for it.  

Class 3 has a 1 meter (3 foot) range.

Class 2 has a 10 meter (33 foot) range.

Class 1 has a 100 meter (330 foot) range.

These are minimum, clear line of sight, ranges, so you may get 10-15 feet out of a class 3 device on a good day,  

 

Folks have reported LionChief remotes working well in the 50-60 foot range, and this is typical for most similar 2.4GHz transmitters including Bluetooth(class2), and Wifi.  They are rated at 33 feet, but tend to go about twice that.  

i agree with this review i would like to add that docs has the features and expandability is easier (AIU) but i love the design of the legacy remote and the fact that it is rechargable granted that had its issues but besides the point its a great design. if only mth 10plus year remote would get a redesign  

I have both DCS and Legacy systems and both have there advantages. I have to say the Legacy remote wins out a little more with me than the DCS remote.  I haven't heard any solid evidence that MTH is working on a redesigned remote and I think that a new remote is overdue!  I get the feeling MTH is pushing more for everyone to embrace the idea of using their smart phone or tablet to run there trains. I have used and tested the app and for me it's no big thrill. I like the feel of the remote in my hands and pushing buttons. I'm picking up my Legacy remote a lot more these day's.

       
       


This is a great point - I knew I missed something important in my quick description. Thanks for the post.

Peter

one question - a bit off topic

 

if one has all Lionel Fastack and Lionel remote switches -

can the MTH DCS be used only

 

thanks- rdeal

RD - mine was simply a comment on the fact that this a feature that I neglected to mention.  Not a comment on whether I prefer the DCS loading over Legacy.  To me, the difference is insignificant at best. I actually think the Legacy programming and modules are cool.  My first Lionel engine was the VL Challenger. When it was programmed and came to life with the whistle roar, it was quite impressive!

 

Peter