6464-100: Is This Rare or Not?

A few of these went for big bucks for a box car

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lionel-6464-100-Western-Pacific-/151000925725?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item23285b461d

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Very-Rare-Lionel-Post-War-Original-6464-100-Western-Pacific-Blue-Feather-/251227628047?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item3a7e55620f

http://www.ebay.com/itm/POST-WAR-ORIGINAL-6464-100-WESTERN-PACIFIC-WITH-BLUE-FEATHER-W-6464-250-BOX-/290854800322?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item43b84c0bc2

This particular car shows up from time to time on ebay and at the specialty train auctions (ambrose-bauer, ted maurer, nette, etc.) and always commands big dollars.

Keep in mind, everything is relative.  By that I mean, condition of the car, whether it has the original box (strangely enough the ob for this car is numbered 6464-250), willingness of a buyer to pay the big bucks and so forth and so on.  So, in answer to your question, yes, it is a relatively rare car.  If the number 1954 was on the car, in place of the "W.P." just above 6464-100, it would be worth about $75000.00, but then

there were only about 3 or 4 of THAT version ever made.

Well just maybe, if it was worth 75 grand, I might just change my mind about selling and the heck with fond memories! Nope - no boxes. My mom tossed them out long long ago. Who knew? The only boxes I have left are the original box the KW transformer came in and the trestle set.

Tom McComas and James Tuohy describe this car in their LIONEL: A COLLECTOR'S GUIDE AND HISTORY, Volume II: POSTWAR, p. 83, as follows:

    In 1954 Lionel made two Western Pacifics. One was a regular production model and the other was a very limited run, perhaps a promotion for the Western Pacific Railroad. The production model was silver, had a yellow feather, and was numbered 6464-100. The one that never went into production [is lettered and numbered WP/1954, as initagain posted].

     In 1955 the orange Western Pacific with a blue feather was made. The number on the car was 6464-100, but the number on the box was 6464-250. The parts list also referred to the car as 6464-250 and -250 would have been the next number in the 6464 sequence.

     Lionel made a 6464-250 blue feather car in 1966 with plastic trucks, a 1955 3-panel door [for the State of Maine boxcar - 6464-275] and a 1959-style body.

     Lionel also made (in U.S.A.) a blue feather car numbered 6464-100 with die-cast sprung trucks. The number on the postwar-style orange and blue box is 6-19260.

In Tom McComas' 4th run of his video magazine Toy Train Revue in 1992, Joe Algozzini put this car in what he said was the most rare, regular production items from Lionel - especially one he has that is only lettered on one side. I believe Classic Toy Trains did an article not too long ago on 6464 boxcars, and put this car as the most valuable of all the 6464 boxcars.

If I found a really valuable car in my inventory, I would sell it immediately to get more money to buy new stuff. 

.....

Dennis

Me too, Dennis.  I've checked.  No dice. 

These cars are a bit of Lionel Price Guide Mis-information. They are neither rare or scarce. What they are are desirable and pricy! I don't buy the idea they were in a short run. I have at least four destinctly different variations of this car not counting the truly rare ones on type I molds, or the scarcer Type two with the -250 style lettering. For there to be  four decernable variations would require at least four runs of this car.   Fourty years of bad information has led everyone to believe they are the rarest postwar car.  I can name 50 cars far scarcer then this one. They are nice looking and harder to find then say a 6464 MKT.  You can expext to pay from $300- $800 for the car, unboxed, in VG to Exc. condition. Like most other Postwar Lionel they are declining in value and will continue to do so as the baby boomers retire and sell off thier collections with few younger folks to buy them. Hang on to it as it is "holy grail" for most collectors.

I have always heard it said an items value is whatever the next person is willing to pay for it. Not where I would put my money, but I am sure many would say the same about things I may buy.

Brian Miller:  would it be possible for your to post pix of the four versions you have of this car?  That would be interesting and informative.  Thanks!

I will try to attach two pictures here. I had problems getting a good photo that will show the details.  All of these cars are "common" type 2 cars. The areas where variations occure are as follows. CAR COLOR, there are two different oranges. Three of these are the normal true orange and one is darker. I call it  "Pumpkin", some books refer to it as just dark orange.  DATA REGISTRATION, One of the cars has the tip of the feather touching the top of the W in Western on the left top side. On the others there is about a 1/4" gap.  FEATHER COLOR  the feathers very in color. Some of these are a true blue whiles others are purplish. LETTERING  COLOR, the cars lettering varies from a true white to an off white/greyish color. This is very observable in person and is not due to dirt as these cars are all real nice. I have  been activly collecting 6464's since 1974. I have about 200 different cars.  I have heard that there are as many as 500 variations in the 6464 series, but I am unwilling to spend the money it takes to buy cars enmass and sell them off just to find minor variations.

Drat! We almost had a "what's it worth" thread without somebody stating that

"it's worth what someone will pay for it".

Ya think?

I had a chance to buy the 6464-1954 car in the early 80's when I was in college. $3000. What a bargin. Unfortunatly $3000 at that time would be no different then 3 million. There was no possible way.

never caught the 6464 boxcar fever. I think I have one 6464.

But I have suffered from a number of other Pre-war viruses though.

oops just found a second 6464!

As the O.P. of this thread that I started over 3 months ago, I'm rather surprised that this is still lingering out there and appreciate the mostly intelligent responses.

However no one has answered one of my original questions that I'm still wondering about, mainly does anyone bother to insure their trains on their homeowner's policy - specifically with a rider listing the inventory?

I do not have my trains listed on my policy, but I have an unusual policy in that It's exemptions are flipped.

Listed items are not covered, all else is up to dollar limits.

This actually does not cost a lot more than a regular policy, but you must demand it.

And depending on Insurance Company & State Regs, they may or may not offer it.

Hi, I too wondered about insurance coverage on train collections.

My agent informed me that collections were insured under the "contents"portion of homeowner coverage but still subject to the maximum limit of insurance purchased.

In other words if your house burns to the ground you would receive the maximum amount of insurance you had purchased. If you could replace your house, contents AND train collection with the insurance proceeds good for you.

If not, you would have to have purchased additional insurance to encompass the "value" of your collection.

So, if your collection is worth "X" dollars you might want to up the amount of your coverage by "X" dollars.

At least that's what my agent informed me.

So you've got to ask yourself a question..."Do I feel lucky?....."

Yes my entire collection is insured. Not just the trains but my other collectable toys and antiques as well. The only company I found that would do this affordably was State Farm. They will insure the private property up to the value of the house. They, as many insurers, will not insure cash, coins, silver service, etc.,but the trains were no problem. My concern is not so much theft as fire. If the bad guys can get past the walled, gated property, get past the cameras and the alarm they really want it. As for the un insured items I keep them in a big fire proof safe. If the bad guys can carry off a 4 or 500 pound safe with a couple of hundred pounds of contents, so be it. Because the value of my trains and collectables exceeds the value of the house I keep all of the toys and collectables in the house and the trains have their own building.  The train building is seperate and far enough from the house that if there was a house fire it should not  effect the train building. This kind of "doubles" my coverage.

There have been many threads covering the subject of insuring toy/model trains.

Homeowners policies generally require a valuable items rider in order to cover collectables, such as trains. Typically specialized policies, such as what is offered by the TCA, are less expensive.

Had one of these bad boys back when I was a kid.  Good thing I kept it in fairly good shape.  A famous collector found out I had it in 1969, and we got together on a deal. I got a Lionel 681 with six axle tender in the same shape as my boxcar.  Thought it was good at the time, but today I kinda miss that ol' 6464-100 WP.  The new ones look OK, but lack the textured paint and smell of the old car. Mebby someday I get another!

Read this insurance thread from 2011. It will help answer your question:

https://ogrforum.com/t...and-layout-insurance

The early 6464-100 Orange with blue feather is rare, but the early 100-250 box is worth more that the car.

There are other threads. I suggest doing an OGRR search using the term "Insurance".

Here is another:

https://ogrforum.com/t...odel-train-insurance

I think truly rare would be the red Central of Georgia and the black lettered Rock Island. Fairly rare are the type III -700, -900, etc.   Joe

Rigatoni, Ill bite on most of your thoughts. The type III's on the Santa Fe and Green NYC are rare. I would say less then 24 known examples. I believe they were made as dealer replacement shells. The common versions were on type 4 molds. I think they were on type II's because they had some old molds they needed to use up later after the initial runs were done.  The Red Central Of Georga, maybe Very scarce. These tend to come up once in awhile. I see then at the big auction houses every year or so. I have a feeling that there are more then 2 dozen of these, but not many more. The Black letter RI is where I will disagree. These are availble and show up on ebay with regularity. I would say 4-6 cars a year. Hard to find, but they can be bought if you are willing to pay. I have had two of those and the opertunity to buy others. Those type III's on the other hand can't be bought with a tall pile of Benjamins unless you know someone. I have never had the opertunity to get one.

While were are on 6464's I heard that the Project Roar Publishing guys were doing a book on the 6464's. Anyone heard anything?

I can't say that the orange WP 6464-100 is really rare, although not exactly common.

In my Lionel collecting since 1971, I'd have to say that the silver large feather version is probably just as uncommon, and other types perhaps even more hard to find.