765/1225 double-header questions.

What event/trip was this?

 

DV

Sorry Cabrat4449 The run I am talking about is 765's August dead head run up Horseshoe curve with N&S  VIP personnel in the cab and Rich at the Throttle.

Mr. Melvin will have to give the specifics.

 

I am not sure what speed the 765 was working, but it was well below what she was designed and built for..High Speed Freight!!

 

DV

Oooh you called Rich Melvin MR MELVIN YOUR IN BIG TROUBLE NOW! You might as well have said the bad word for a Diesel hooked to another diesel !

Cabrat4449 is a VERY nice young man, who has been properly raised to respect his elders, and correctly referred to Rich as "Mr. Melvin". Thus My friend Dan, will NOT be in "big trouble". Dan has been volunteering with the SP4449 crew and has been learning a lot about firing her. I think he asked a very good question!

Hot water it was just a joke. On numerous occasion i have corresponded with Rich on the forum and called him Mr Melvin. He always jokingly says don't call me that, Mr Melvin was my dad. I hope this clears the issue up.No harm was ment.

For the COMPLETE answer to this question, you'll have to read my column in Run 260, the December issue. The quick answer is that after slowing down, the 765 settled in at 10.9 mph on that 1.7% grade. With the weight of the train she had on that grade (about 1,200 tons) that was about all she could handle.

 

On level track, the 765 was rated to pull a 4,000 ton train at 70 mph. Towards the end of steam on the NKP, there are records of them being assigned to 6,000 ton trains. They were able to achieve 55 - 60 mph with these heavier trains.

Isn't there an old rule of thumb that with every 1% rise in railroad gradient, the horsepower required to pull the same train needs to double?  So, 4000 tons on flatland pulled by 4500 horsepower requires 9000 horsepower on a 1% and something like 18,000 horsepower on a 2%? 

It's something like that, Mark. Wyhog...we need you to chime in here!

Were not the NKP, C&O, and MP 2-8-4's basicly the same base locomotives?

At one time the Erie, Pere Marquette, Nickel Plate and the C&O were all owned by the Van Sweringen brothers out of Cleveland. They formed the Advisory Mechanical Committee to develop common designs for their steam locomotives. Thus the Berkshires owned by those four railroads were of the same basic design.

 

They were NOT identical, however. We saw first-hand evidence of that in 1996, when we leased C&O 2716 for a year. We had to replace a few staybolts in the firebox. We already had an inventory of new bolts for 765 in stock at our shop. Since they were the same locomotive they will fit OK, right? Wrong! We found that the "water space" (the space between the inner and outer side sheets) was 1-inch larger in the 2716. The bolts that we had in stock for the 765 were too short and would not fit!

 

Similar...but not identical.

Toss in the Virginian's 10 2-8-4's, as they are virtual duplicates of the C&O Berks. All 4 roads' 2-8-4's are derivative of the same design but basic stats differ a tweak here, a tweak there. Now here is the case of a committee designing something profoundly successful.......as opposed to the old soviet system or the camel's design team!

And my head just exploded!! That calculation can get serious fast from 4500 to 27000+ in just two percent. How does that calculation change if you give up track speed? Thanks to all for their time and info

Those number put into a clear picture why you need horsepower to create speed. 

27,575 sure is a LOT of horsepower!