A friend's DCS 4.30 issues

Tell your friend to put 4.30 back and then set Super TIU/mode back on, on all TIUs from all remotes.

See if things improve.

I just finished talking to Jeff at MTH and informed him of my 4.30 issue he wrote down in detail to forward it to the R&D team as this is an unknown issue with a single engine but is a known issue with multi unit setup engines.

he said the the R&D might contact me and ask for a detailed description of the steps I do to get this error to occur.

so until a fix comes along I will stick with 4.20.

ST PAUL

barry,  is it possible this is a hardware issue with the older tiu's??

ST PAUL

I was having issues as well with REV L TIU.  I reloaded 4.20 and everything is OK.  I have also had customers bring back TIUs and remotes with the same problems.  They are all going back to 4.20 as well.

I was pretty excited about the 4.30 lashup softkey and the super TIU lashup bugs being fixed but the issues that I, and my customers, have been experiencing with 4.3 are not worth it.

The thread I started trying to see if any forum members are experiencing the same problems has been hijacked.  I have tried to eliminate any other possibilities before posting this.

Dave

Dave,  thank you for confirming issues with 4.30 for awhile I thought I was the only one!

seeing you and your customers having issues and yourself with the REV TIU-L version that pretty much negates the older tiu's as being only ones that are having issues with 4.30

 did you by chance when 4.30 was loaded do a engine reset to see if things were fixed?

I have done so much in 4 days I am unsure if I tried that to see if it fixed my issues and frankly at this point I just want to run trains.

ST PAUL

St P.  In answer to your question about older TIUs, one of mine is an original issue Rev G and am having no problems.

that is good to hear so why are the rest of us having issues?

ST PAUL

Dave,

I'm operating in 4.31, previously with 4.30, with 3 Rev. L TIUs in Super TIU mode. The only issues that I'm seeing are minor anomalies in lashup lighting issues.

Previously reported sound level issues with lashup members have been found to be correct, though misunderstood, operation.

The issues described in this thread are bizarre. I wouldn't know how to create such a situation, in software, where all's well with one TIU but screwy on another TIU.

I'm fairly certain that issues seen by your customers are, for the most part, operator error. The correction of the bug that improperly put a TIU into Super TIU mode can cause problems now that it's being done correctly. That's why I documented it when I wrote the release notes, which it is the operator's responsibility to read.

barry a question if you don't mind?

you are beta testing using the new REV L TIU's is it remotely possible?

that in using them with newer hardware than some of us with the older units that the" bizarre" issues are created by the newer Rev L TIU so can you use your older TIU's and see if our issues pop up for you Beta testers?

just a thought.

ST PAUL

St. Paul,

No, I'm not able to swap out TIUs. Regardless, my PS2 and PS3 engines run the gamut from older to brand new.

This sounds to me like something that would be almost impossible to cause via the DCS software, in light of all of the testing we've done and what (little, perhaps) I know of how DCS works "under the hood".

If it wasn't for the alleged non-problems with DCS 4.20, I'd suggest that the problem resides in the TIU itself or in the wiring/track work.

A good test would be to swap out the TIU itself for another and see if the problem persists. If that's not possible, I'd swap the two TIUs and renumber them, and see if the problem follows the TIU or moves to the other TIU.

Correcting my error.  Lash up was created last week, run for awhile, and then put on the shelf for a week.  Sorry for confusion.  Phil

Barry:  Thanks for reply but before I start I have one other question regarding the issue of battery life.  Over my years of DCS operation, I have never replaced many batteries.  I assumed I operate often enough that my batteries stay charged and I am aware of and alert to shortness of sound after  removing power from an engine.  However, today I used "info"  to check batteries in all my engines.  Most were ok, but some showed "low" even though they were all working  ok,  which surprised me.  I know that as nicads age, they loose their charge more quickly.  Should I be replacing batteries more often even though the engines seem to work ok.  I have often found that after a few weeks of non-use, I often have an MTH loco or two  that I have trouble  getting start up the first few tries.  Might the battery issue be even more important with 4.3 ?  Phil 

Phil,

but some showed "low" even though they were all working  ok. Should I be replacing batteries more often even though the engines seem to work ok

DCS i reporting the status of the charging circuit, not the battery. If the engine plays sounds for 6-7 seconds after power-off, the battery is typically OK.

I have often found that after a few weeks of non-use, I often have an MTH loco or two  that I have trouble  getting start up the first few tries.

As long as it does eventually start up, that's typically not a battery-related issue.

Might the battery issue be even more important with 4.3 ?

Nothing that I've experienced would suggest that the battery is more important when operating under DCS 4.30.

Phil, The PS-2 5V with 9V batteries typically last 4-5 years.  At some point voltage can't be maintained.  This places a strain on the charging circuit.  The PS-2 3V is a 2.4V battery and it last about 7 years.

Your engines that are reading Low battery, means the voltage available to charge the battery is lower that what is normal voltage with a good battery.  Most likely because the battery is going bad and is now a heavy drain on the charge circuit.

I recommend replacing the batteries that read low especially if approaching 5 or 7 years depending on style.  AAA 2.4V may not last as long as AA (in my experience).

At some point battery gets weak enough to act like a short on the power supply of the PS-2 board.  That is not good long term and can lead to a hardware failure on the board.   G

Barry,

I did not see this in the 4.3 notes.

Dave

Dave,

From the notes...

• Previously, if TIU #1 was in Super Mode, all TIUs were in Super Mode and if TIU #1 was in Normal Mode, all TIUs were in Normal Mode.

This issue has been corrected. Any engine that was added to a TIU that is placed into Super TIU mode, will operate on all of the TIUs that are in the the DCS Remote, regardless of whether a TIU is in Super TIU mode or Normal TIU mode. However, any engine that was added to a TIU that is not in Super TIU mode, will only operate on tracks connected to the TIU to which it was added.

I was under the impression that super had to be set for all TIUs on all remotes.

Thanks Dave,

With the rumor of completely new TIU's & Remotes coming we most likely will not be installing these updates with all the flaws. Might get the new systems from you if we still have MTH engines then. 

Lima,

we most likely will not be installing these updates with all the flaws

There are at present 2-3 "flaws", as you call them, all of which are minor, 1 of which is resent in 4.20 in a much larger fashion, and 1 of which is already corrected in 4.31 beta.

DCS 4.30 has several of 4.20's major bugs corrected, as well as a few new features.

 if we still have MTH engines then

Please let me know when you'll be selling your DCS engines.

Barry:  I reset my remote 2.  Remote 1 still has my 20 engines in but I did not turn it on. I added the four TIU Rev l's  to remote 2 and made them all super mode.  Of my 16  TIU blocks (four per TIU), I chose one block powered by TIU one to add engines one by one.  The other 15 blocks had their tracks turned off but since they have external power all remained powered.    I added 6 engines  successfully.  But the engine that was giving me problems before, (previously engine 12) got me either "engine in remote" or an "Out of RF Range"  message that I had to remove a battery to get to go away.  Last night I did try running engine 12 in conventional mode with all TIU's turned off and it ran ok with good sounds.  You may recall from my original post that engine 12 and 15 were part of lash up 23.  Engine 15 adds fine and works ok.  But engine 12 seems to have developed a problem that has not changed since the events of my original post. I have not gotten it to add since deleting two days ago.  Engine 12 and 15 are identical Railking NH EP-5 electrics about two years old.  Phil

Phil,

It sounds as if engine 12 has a personal problem. I'd suggest doing signal tests of both engines 12 and one other that's behaving, at the same place on the tracks.

Phil,

This is a new message for me.  What exactly does it mean.  Where is it in the remote since it will not add as a new engine?  

It means just what it says, that DCS believes that the engine is already in the remote. Now, with 4.30, it displays the engine it believes is in the remote right in its window after it displays the error message.

Try pressing Startup.

Never, after displaying "engine in remote"  did it list the engine.  And the supposed engine that is in the remote never showed up on either active or inactive lists.  Pressing start up after the error message took me to an engine already added that was in #12 spot.  As I mentioned earlier I was adding one engine after another on my usual add track (TIU 1's Territory.  This engine was unique  in not adding but coming up with "engine in remote."  As an experiment I moved it to one of the power blocks from  TIU 3.  It immediately added as engine 18 and works fine now.  Any theories on what happened?  This never happened to me when trying to add an engine before.  Any chance the 4.3 change might be involved?  Phil  

Phil,

When you attempters go add the engine and the "Engine in Remote" message was displayed, did the remote not go back to the engine screen and show an engine in the display? This would be the engine that DCS thought that you were attempting to add, that was already in the remote.

Pressing Startup should have started up that engine.

If that did not occur, all I can surmise is that there was something unique about that engine. Further, it should not have been able to be added just because it was moved to another TIU's tracks, unless the first TIU had some sort of an issue regarding, perhaps, signal strength.

Since the same DCS is installed in all of your TIUs, and one worked OK while one did not, I wouldn't suspect 4.30 as the culprit. Rather, I'd be looking for what's different between the domains of the two TIUs. This could be signal strength or wiring related.

Barry:  Solved it!!!  This steam engine in question has a tether and the end of the plug on the locomotive side had come loose.  I know to check the plug that goes in and out of the tender, but obviously it can happen to the plug on the harder to see and not easily removable engine side too.  Back to running trains.   Phil

Hi Phil, glad to see you found your problem. I too learned about the plugs on the engine side of the tethers the hard way. When we see each other, at least you and I get a laugh out of these quirks. Have fun running the trains.  George 

When I was down at the ASC training at MTH, we did some engine repairs as part of the course.  One of the PS/3 locomotives had the same issue, the drawbar plug was loose inside the locomotive.

A great thing to work on in future software upgrades might be more specific error codes.  So many can almost mean the same thing and be almost useless.    "Engine not on track" when it is setting on the track right in front of me."  "Out of RF Range"  can  be caused by so many factors.  "Engine error can have so many causes."  Same with "maintenance required"   And I could go on.  If some of these error messages  can not be made more specific, perhaps they  should be eliminated.  Just my two cents!!!  Phil

Barry... My remote broke have a new one coming today via ups so will try changing tiu's as suggested and will post how that came out.

the main board on remote both circuit board black connectors broke off for the antenna board under the display screen. this remote Fromm second tiu's release date so the newer thumb wheel will be an improvement I hope.

okay folks I did as instructed I set TIU's up in reverse order tiu#2 is now TIU#1 this is the one with issues when connected to inner loop of tracks.

the now TIU#1 works fine turn smoke on and off and headlight no issues with headlight and marker lights being turned off.

now the TIU#2 connected to inner loop has same issues as the other TIU had so this I beleive rules out my TIU's as being the culprit as the issue stays with any TIU connected to this inner loop.

unless I misunderstood Barry the issue should have followed the same TIU that was connected to the inner loop did I get that correct barry??

so then this would indicate a bug in 4.30?? am at a loss on this as in both 4.20 or 4.10 all works correctly minus each ones issues that are known to exist in them.

unless I misunderstood Barry the issue should have followed the same TIU that was connected to the inner loop did I get that correct 

That is correct. You have effectively demonstrated that the TIUs are not the problem.

so then this would indicate a bug in 4.30??

No, it would not.

In fact, since the TIU was swapped and the  problem stayed right where it was, it would lead one to believe that the problem is due to something in the layout wiring or the tracks.

As to why this occurs with 4.30 and not 4.20, I tend to believe that your observations are mistaken. I expect that if you were to put 4.20 back in your devices, and not change anything else, that the problem would still persist.

barry, I will let battery charge just to make sure it is fully charged and will try what you suggested and post later as to what happened.

thanks for the help so far and will go searching for those clamps at home depot I assume there a semi mild spring tension?

 I assume there a semi mild spring tension?

That's correct.The ones that I purchased several years ago are black and orange.

barry, does it look like this one?

if so mine is a very stiff spring.

I did some upgrades at York & borrowed a clamp from Marty Fitzhenry.  The clamp had much less tension than the one you show in the picutre, which I have several of and feel they are too strong.  He said he got his at Home Depot.  I checked my HD and all they had was the stiff ones.

I wonder if it would help weaken the spring to leave it clamped on a thick block of wood when not in use????  Marty's were much weaker than any I've seen

Robert,

Yes, that looks like mine. It been working fine for 8 years r so and has seen literally dozens, if not hundreds, of upgrades.

As a matter of fact, I've probably done 50 remote upgrades thus far during the DCS 4.30/4.31 beta test.

St Paul, my experience re the smoke is that the remote remembers the smoke-on /smoke-off sequence, but may not be on track with what the setting is in the loco, so often when the smoke comes on at startup (even though I never turn it on), the first press of remote says it has turned it on and another press is needed to shut it down.

  I have also noted on some locos that pressing the smoke, or headlight, or marker light, or interior light button affects the 3 other of these 4 functions.  It is a real pain.

St Paul, while I am running 4.30, I am not saying that this didn't happen when I ran prior versions.  It did, but I cannot remember if there was any change since then. 

I am also finding that if I do not turn the tender smoke switch off, then when I press startup, the loco starts with smoke running.  This is a change from 4.2, but easy to overcome by turning the switch off and, if smoke is desired, using the DCS to turn it on.

For the record, I have not been using lashups, because I prefer steam and R-K steamers other than switchers lack front couplers.  Also for the record, I do not find that 4.3 has lessened the speed scrolling issue (speed goes up and down when wheel is rotated).