A Long Sad MTH Experience

Bob, sorry to hear about your situation. I can assure you, MTH does not have a monopoly on these type of issues. A friend of mine has had similar issues with Lionel trains. In fact to the point that he switched to MTH (not an endorsement).  My friend has had a few issues with MTH as well. However none were DOA or shortly there after.  Only after running a while, then did he have issues.  I've had new MTH and new Lionel and have had minor issues with both.  I like to run my trains, so, I've gone back to Postwar engines or have modified new engines, electronically, to run more reliably.

Steve

I understand your frustration.  However, before you get too worked up (well, perhaps it's too late), have you contacted MTH and explained your situation?  Maybe they'll help, and maybe they'll just say "sorry, out of warranty", but don't they deserve the chance before any further bashing?

I had very little luck with mth myself..  Until I started using Lionel 180watt bricks after that I never had another  Issiue . The fuses trip before it smokes the boards .. 

My experience with MTH was positive as well regarding a repair.  Granted, it was under warranty, but I am referring to the overall experience.  Good communication and a very reasonable turn-around time.  And as stated in previous posts I had a few minor problems with 2 of my Lionel engines, (not under warranty) that I was able to correct myself.  But I must say that the Lionel Parts Department deserves a "High Five" as well!  Just my 2 Cents.

 

Chief Bob (Retired)

Sorry to hear about what happened. Try contacting MTH and give them a chance to resolve it. Keep us posted as hopw they respond.

 

Bob

"What we feared most is upon us."

 

Sadly, the above story is all-too-common among O gauge model railroading. 

 

Did you keep your Postwar?  It'll run and run and run and run...

Within 2 months each engine was malfunctioning by hard locking into forward so that at start up the engine would tear off at a full 18 volts around the club layout......After about two hours, he was able to get the GE Evolution out of its lock and running normally.

The cure is a conventional reset, which takes a few minutes at most.  It is done without a TIU/DCS signal on the circuit, using transformer buttons.  This has been described several times on the forum.

my experence with mth has been the opposite. i ve bought since 1994, about a total of 80 to 100 or so engines. i had 1 p-1 engine meltdown,one bad speaker in a 605 j ,and a bad board in a diesel in 2012 that was under /warr. ive stopped buying brand new trains and now buy stuff 2-5 years old when possible. it just seems the level of quality control has gone down with all the train makers in recent years.-Jim

This thing about "giving them a chance to fix it" wouldn't fly very far with me. Build the stupid thing right the first time- MTH or Lionel.  Thank God for old post wars that run.

I have 25 locos with DCS, some Weaver or Williams products, but mostly MTH.  They all run solidly.  I recall many problems with those pre- and post-war locos 50-60 years ago, and lousy techs. 

 

Having said that, I am of the opinion that the Korean-built MTH were better quality than Chinese-built.  But, in truth, I've been around trains long enough that what might be a problem to some is minor maintenance or adjustment to me.

Sorry to hear of your bad luck. While i only buy lionel Locs, I've known many who buy mth and have no problems.  I'm sure you will hear from many about the horror stories as well.  All i can suggest is to get them fixed and I'm sure they will become dependable performers for you.  If all of their locs were bad,  mth would not be in business.  It really is a great hobby.  Just be patient and we can help you work though the problems.

Hmmm. is this what had driven the prices of Marx up so much?  Once ignored, it now

seems, and has been or a while, much in demand.  Mine from childhood ran literally until a wheel, a driver, fell off, I put it back on the axle where the rail held it unless I picked it up, and it ran, on and on, and on and on.  I have mentioned before that new autos are crammed full of boards  (I had one case where the car was down for a month because the factory put the wrong board in it, after the tsunami in Japan, but it was rectified with no more problems until I traded the car) and the makes of those I will trust seem to run until traded, with no board problems I! have experienced.  Same with TV's, etc., so......??  So...in what country are most of the TV boards made?

Many questions....
Are you the only one who runs these trains?
Does anyone else have access to these, that also has the same engines?

What is the power set up on the Club layout?

Why didn't you run them more in the beginning break in period and see if you could stress them a little?

I have a LOCO SOUND set that is running as good as the day I bought it...and it was ran for hours on Christmas by about 20 children...my basement looked like a KISS rock concert wuth all the smoke.

Odd that you got so many LEMONS....
My spider sense would be tingling....

Unless you are THE UNLUCKIEST PERSON alive.

It's a problem with all the importers, not just MTH. I have one Atlas engine, 2 Lionel engines, and a thankfully sold Williams engine that were all bad runners or complete failures. Oddly, they are all conventional...

 

I have multiple "go to engines" from all the importer's because they just keep running and running, and running. Three of those engines are MTH proto-1, and one is MTH proto-2. The warhorse TMCC Santa Fe hudson is another one. You just never know which one's are going to be lemons.

 

I would do as others have suggested and contact MTH. That many failures in a relative short amount of time makes me think something is amiss.  

I'm with Jim Patorius, the stuff should run right the "first time" especially since these items are not cheap!!!!!!!!  Consider the PC's offered today, full of electronic's and about the same cost of a new steamer.  Yet they run very well!  Of course they may have software issues (MicroS___) comes to mind, but the hardware doesnt' fail until after many years of service  I have an HP and it is bullet proof.  The components aren't all made here and they hold up well. 

I expect the same from our train manufacturers.  Most of their warranties are for a year at best.  After that good luck with parts and repairs without having to pay a pretty penny or upgrading to a completely different operating system.

It is a shame that quality in the electronics isn't as good as the physical hardware.  These trains should by all rights last for many many years.  Yet after some brief time on a layout troubles arise.

That's why a lot of operators have switched back to simply running postwar trains.  They are durable and easily repaired if need be.

Also I to don't expect posts of this nature to be up very long either.

 

Wishing you luck in your repairs and hopefully they won't need any for a long time to come.  

That was a good move..i run a Z1000 with 19 MTH engines(not all running at once)but i know a Lionel 180 is my future.The Z1000 has been very reliable.

Interesting.  I have about 20 MTH engines.  Most have been trouble free and some have over 1500 scale miles.  But one, which also happens to be an M1A, has been nothing but trouble.

No Chaos with the TIU and DCS Remote on my layout.

     I have nineteen MTH / RailKing locomotives on my layout.

Only had to send one in for service and it was out of warranty and MTH installed a new board for free.

     The tech support phone number is also very helpful and they were able to solve all my issues over the phone. I have also used forum members and my local dealer. All issues were resolved.

     I run both Lionel and MTH, and all issues have been solved.

Hope things work out for you and this rant is over. Good Luck

This video below is the newest RailKing on my layout.

I too have a bunch of MTH locus in PS2 and PS3 and have only had minor issues mostly related to bad batteries in PS2 locos.

Agreed, I have a couple Korean built MTH locos that are well over 10 years old, really good runners and am very satisfied with them.

I knew this thread would bring out a long list of"I have thousands of MTH locos that have a run a zillion miles with no problems" but the guy seems to have a problem  which your success doesn't help him. When I buy something new, out of the box, I expect it to run with no problems, not even calling a "help" line. An old fashioned concept, I know but the way I am. When I sold someone a pump and it didn't work right I was on the phone all over the plant people. I don't think they liked me but it got results. Yes, I bought a new HP laptop for $1200 and just out of warranty it died-not worth repairing. Last HP for me and I found out this was a problem with HP for quite awhile.  Don't hush up problems.

I also swear my MTH engines but of course, I'm not problem free. My Long Island Imperial Mikado is yet again having issues, not the first time and likely won't be the last. I've had plenty of minor issues as well over the years. 

 

As for the M1 Mountain, I assume this is a Railking Imperial product. I purchased this and returned it. The issue is the trailing truck sits just a hair below the wireless drawbar solder joints. The solder joints are suppose to have an insulator in it but I find it rather lacking. Any minor vertical movement in the trailing truck will put the metal trailing truck into the electrical board on the wireless tether causing fireworks and it to go "boom"! Also, it will force the engine off the track. 

 

I returned mine to my dealer. I've heard others having similar issues and it appears MTH redesigned the drawbar connections with similar engines after that. 

That's also interesting.  My M1A problem child is a Railking.  I suspect the drawbar and trailing truck made contact at some point.  The tender board was replaced, but then the marker and cab lights flashed constantly.  Its been in the shop for months, but when I get it back, I would like to know about the redesigned drawbar connection.

Bob 1949,

I have shared your same feelings of remorse with many former customers. I understand exactly what you are feeling, my friend.

Bob,

 

Quality control arguments aside, I would recommend that you take these issues to MTH To see if they will do something to remedy this.  They can't do much about a multiple failure issue like yours if they are not made aware.   You might be surprised.

 

I definitely agree that as expensive as these products are they should work out of the box and for a long period thereafter.  But the reality is that design and quality control can Be lacking at times.  But I can assure you, your experiences are not at all common based on my own experiences, friends,  and the many posts I've read over the years. 

 

Hopefully you can get this resolved satisfactorily and can go back to being excited about a new retirement hobby.  IMO model trains are so much fun they ought to be illegal.

 

Good luck,

Ed

If both the locomotives were speeding at a full 18 Volts was it the DCS connection not getting through the tracks properly. Only the Voltage was passing through the tracks, but they were not getting the DCS signal. Check the wires to the track.

 

Andrew

When I buy something new, out of the box, I expect it to run with no problems, not even calling a "help" line.

I would like to also expect that, but in life I have learned that such performance is too often lacking, in more than just trains..

 

Penn-Pacific, I have a half-dozen+ Weaver and MTH locos of Korean origin, over 20 years old (all now PS2) than still run like fine clocks, and always have.

 

falconservice:  Not necessarily.  Some locos get locked in conventional forward or reverse or neutral.  Curew is the conventional reset.  There are several threads on this issue.

At Xmas 1957 I received a 621 Lionel set. I thought it was the greatest thing I had ever seen. It ran 2 days and then quit running. It was actually a 1956 set and had been sitting somewhere for a year. It was probably a E-Unit issue but the place I bought it did not know how to repair it. Therefore I traded it for a cheaper engine with extra track and some assessories. It ran forever. My only point is sometime things happen- even in the old days.

The locomotives did not get locked, they both sped off at full speed under full voltage.

 

That is a command control track wiring connection problem. I have had it happen to me.

 

Andrew

Bob, I have seen how frustrated you are with your locos I have only seen your Mountain run once, that thing is cursed. The tether comes loose, it should not do that all the time. Thing is, Proto 2.0 is usually easier because the three locos were the start of Proto 3.0. I only have One Proto 3.0 steamer and I might be adding a GS-4 in the future. 

Andrew, I'll give you the details.  Been running PS2 since 2001 without this problem.  One day, when I powered up the track on which my first PS3, a PRR MU set, was sitting, it took off at top speed in reverse.

 

It was not a connection problem, for all other locos ran ok. 

 

I called MTH tech support and a VP answered.  I described the problem.  He said loco had somehow gotten locked in conventional.  He said to bypass the TIU.  Apply power slowly to about 12 volts so the loco doesn't fly (I did this but also held it so it couldn't move).  Press the whistle button on the transformer (NOT the remote) once and the bell button 5 times, at 1/2 second intervals.  Loco, if operator's timing is right, will give 2 toots.  Otherwise, try again.

 

I did it.  It worked.  Never had the problem recur.  A considerable number of others have reported this issue on the forum, and I believe most if not all were new PS3s.  They could got locked in forward, reverse, or neutral.  No one is really sure what causes the problem, but this cure has worked.  A track connection problem would affect all DCS locos.

Funny thing I was the fourth person to reply to this post and my post has disappeared.  Thanks to Andrew I was sent a copy of my original post via email.  So I will retype my original post and see what happens.  I'm sure it was just a misspelled word.  Here goes. . . .

 

 

 

Yeah I can't imagine having to retype that post.

 

As long as the post is objective and factual, I don't think it should be deleted.

 

We should be discussing all aspects of this hobby and not just what smells good (no pun intended)

 

The locomotive was in conventional mode.

I missed that part in the manual. I thought the track would have to be set up individually for command or conventional and the Loco would adjust automatically.

 

Andrew

I have had problems with MTH, Lionel, 3rd Rail and Atlas. All about the same small percentage. Most of my locomotives worked out of the box. A few didn't. I agree that that information doesn't help the OP but how does it help to say "It should have run right out of the box"? I do know how the OP feels as I had so many problems with TMCC back in 1998 that one point I almost pulled what little hair I have left out of my head. It was very frustrating.

 

Yes these toys are expensive, and yeah it would be great if they all ran perfectly right out of the box but these are complex toys designed and produced by human beings who are not perfect. No one knows the exact percentage of locomotives any given manufacturer produces that are dead right out of the box or shortly thereafter. It could be a much smaller number than we would ever dream of but we don't know. However, we do know the number is not zero. So someone somewhere is going to get a bad one or a lemon. Granted Bob1949 caught a run of real bad luck. It appears that his M1A has a factory defect that caused it to blow up but his diesels on the other hand don't seem to have a major problem.

 

In any case Bob1949 I say take a break from the trains for a few days and then see if you can fix your diesels with the suggestions posted here. Good luck and I hope you start enjoying the hobby again real soon.

I purchased a new MTH diesel a while back.   Put on the rails, started it up, and it ran 2 feet and locked up.   Power on/off made no difference.   Fortunately for me, this is a newer model with the PS-3 that allows the factory reset from the remote commander.   Followed the manual, worked!    Now I have to periodically do a factory reset.  Not a consistent pattern of when it locks up that I have detected.

 

So I like my loco, its a good value even with the design flaw.   And it is a design flaw.   I am glad for the factory reset option, and will purchase additional new MTH.   Remember when we had to reboot Microsoft PCs often?   Also design flaws that were solved by OS rewrites.

The best way to make the manufacturers focus on quality (have had issues with recent WBB, Lionel, and MTH) is to stop buying until we see the issues are rectified or at least publicly addressed and some commitment is made to address the issues.  Many folks complain about quality, but then when the new catalogs come out, they revert to having the discipline of a 9 year old in a toy store and allow themselves to get carried away, buying (now pre-ordering) much and eliminating any incentive to fix the issues.  

 

I don't want to see Lionel, MTH, or WBB go out of business, obviously.  But the number of issues reported here cannot be dismissed and the big three should address the issues.  Until then, I will stay out of the market and run what we have, which is far more than we ever will need.  No need to spend hundreds of dollars, and sometimes thousands, on something I cannot see before I order and then have to cross my fingers it works when it comes out of the box.  

I know MTH sell goods products and stands by there warranty, but you also have to understand these newest electronics are susceptible to being damaged if you get any track shorts and you said in your first purchase there were sparks come from the rear of the engine . That's probably what caused the board to be damaged. I always watch my train's closely when operating and keep my hand close to the throttle in case of a short..

The quicker you can shut them down the better incase of a short.

If the engine or engines get systems like mentioned earlier from DJR , you usually can reset the ps3 or ps2 engine as he mentioned. I have seen some problems on this forum where some train operators are using a transformer that is not recommended by MTH for use with there DCS TIU .

All in all give MTH a fare shake and they will repair your engines or tell you how to reset  your engine first. GGG on these forums and John Gunnerman can repair your engines also and do a great job!

Alan

“But the number of issues reported here cannot be dismissed and the big three should address the issues.”

 

And there lies the problem Ray…

 

I know there are forum members here who misreport (lie) about their experiences and problems. A well known member will go out of his way to point out problems with Lionel products while also giving praise to his 3^rd rail products saying that he has never had a problem… but this is not true. I don’t know why the information posted is false, (I have my ideas), but it absolutely adds no credibility to his product reviews. It’s a sad fact that there are members here who have agendas against a certain company and WE are the ones to have to figure out when to push the BS button.

 

Sorry, but I just can’t base my buying decisions on forum discussions any more.

 

Charlie

A good question to ask is which manufacturer is the most responsive to issues with their products within say a year out of the box---are they willing to stand behind their product and fix it with minimal charge? which manufacturer has parts for their older items that are rapidly available? I only have experience with lionel and its been positive but for a 1k-2k engine you expect it