This Steamer had been parked in front of the Valley railroad in Essex, CT for years and before that was Valley's primary power when they first started out. Glad to see her being restored.
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@superwarp1 posted:This Steamer had been parked in front of the Valley railroad in Essex, CT for years and before that was Valley's primary power when they first started out. Glad to see her being restored.
Please keep up informed
I'm impressed that they think they can restore it for $375,000, that seems low when compared to other efforts around the country. The Reading T1 restoration went for several million!
I see where they say they want to raise $375M, but I don't read that to mean that's all it will take.
Amusing to me was the paragraph that listed all the areas that will need work. Not sure they left anything out.
Nice looking little Baldwin.
$375,000 won’t be enough.
@Byrdie posted:I see where they say they want to raise $375M, but I don't read that to mean that's all it will take.
Amusing to me was the paragraph that listed all the areas that will need work. Not sure they left anything out.
I believe you mean $375 thousand
@Rich Melvin posted:$375,000 won’t be enough.
Figured it was a error reported by current media but here it is direct from the museum. I would agree 375,000 seems low.
@Melvin P posted:I believe you mean $375 thousand
Sorry if there's a misunderstanding. In my circles, "M" means thousand and "MM" means millions. Think of the Roman numerals.
@Byrdie posted:Sorry if there's a misunderstanding. In my circles, "M" means thousand and "MM" means millions. Think of the Roman numerals.
Nope: in common use, "K" is for thousands, "M" is for millions. Think of computers (kilobyte, megabyte) or radio (kilocycle, megacycle). 
@Byrdie posted:Sorry if there's a misunderstanding. In my circles, "M" means thousand and "MM" means millions. Think of the Roman numerals.
Either way, $375,000 is too little for a restoration, and $375,000,000 could get you a new engine built from the ground up. With money to spare.
@Steve Tyler posted:Nope: in common use, "K" is for thousands, "M" is for millions. Think of computers (kilobyte, megabyte) or radio (kilocycle, megacycle).
I think it depends on the country you are in. In the USA, you are certainly correct. But many other countries, even some English-speaking ones, are different.
Does the museum have a railroad to run it on? And historic heavyweight coaches with open windows? The Valley has all that. There is very little steam operating in New England so as it is. Just Essex, Conway, and Clark's in Lincoln, NH operate steam as far as I know, and maybe Edaville and the operation in Portland, ME where most of the Edaville equipment moved to.
@Robert K posted:Does the museum have a railroad to run it on? And historic heavyweight coaches with open windows? The Valley has all that. There is very little steam operating in New England so as it is. Just Essex, Conway, and Clark's in Lincoln, NH operate steam as far as I know, and maybe Edaville and the operation in Portland, ME where most of the Edaville equipment moved to.
Yes, check the website. When it comes to steam in New England: Conway is intermittent, in fact 7470 is down for repairs with dreams of restoring Maine Central 501, You have Mt Washington, and Clark's is a tourist trap amusement park. Essex is the only regular scheduled Steam operation in New England.
$375k might be doable if the loco boiler and running gear don’t need major repair, all labor is volunteer, and they had a knowledgeable group with excellent leadership and resources for donated services.
The Carson & Colorado group that restored SP #18 (narrow gauge 4-6-0), did it for a little under $200k. All the labor was volunteer, our executive board has a lot of connections and was able to get a lot of specialty jobs donated or done for cost, several members are professional steam railroaders that rebuilt parts on their personal time, and we have a very supportive local community. It’s difficult to restore a locomotive on the cheap but not impossible. It’s the quality of the people involved that makes the difference.
@Ryan Selvius posted:$375k might be doable if the loco boiler and running gear don’t need major repair, all labor is volunteer, and they had a knowledgeable group with excellent leadership and resources for donated services.
CFR 230 will require that major boiler work be done. They will have to ultrasound every square foot of the boiler to measure the thickness of the steel, calculate a new Form 4 from those measurements, then put in all new tubes and flues as a bare minimum. Add a few firebox repairs to this work list and there goes your $375,000 before you even look at the running gear.
I'm a total neophyte when it comes to rebulding steam locomotives, but just judging from the budgets of every rebuild I've ever read about, tells me that $375K ain't gonna' be nearly enough. 
@Rich Melvin posted:
Obviously the Form 4 is a must, we did one on the 18. We did the whole boiler and firebox ultrasound ourselves with a borrowed ultrasonic tester. I personally did all the measurements and boiler calculations to complete the survey. This was all “free” labor. The only real costs we had for the boiler were replacing a thin section in a boiler course, staybolts, and new tubes. The metal fab for patching the boiler was cheap because the welding labor was donated by a local, all we had to do was pay for him to get his cert for welding on a pressure vessel. It all goes back to who’s involved in the project.
Firebox condition is a massive cost burden for a restoration and can make or break the financial feasibility. The 18’s firebox was and still is in great condition, probably because she’s an oil burner. The locomotive in the OP could be an entirely different matter.
@Ryan Selvius posted:The 18’s firebox was and still is in great condition, probably because she’s an oil burner.
Interesting statement. Burning oil is widely considered harder on the firebox than other fuels.
@smd4 posted:Interesting statement. Burning oil is widely considered harder on the firebox than other fuels.
I suppose in terms of thermal stress, that may be true. My comment was coming from the standpoint of cinder erosion. Coal cinders accelerated by the draft can do a number on firebox sheets, especially tube sheets. Just from what I read about steam locomotive restorations, it seems like it is usually the coal burners that need extensive firebox work.
@Ryan Selvius posted:I suppose in terms of thermal stress, that may be true. My comment was coming from the standpoint of cinder erosion. Coal cinders accelerated by the draft can do a number on firebox sheets, especially tube sheets. Just from what I read about steam locomotive restorations, it seems like it is usually the coal burners that need extensive firebox work.
The thermal stress problem is absolutely true! Back in the day, oil burner fireboxes were expected to last about 10 years, compared to about 15 for coal burners. Being able to increase or decrease the intensity of the fire basically with the flick of the wrist on oil burners induces huge amounts of thermal stress, compared to a coal burner, and its massive fire-bed heat sink of coal that changes temperature much more gradually.
@Byrdie posted:Sorry if there's a misunderstanding. In my circles, "M" means thousand and "MM" means millions. Think of the Roman numerals.
When I was working on Wall Street, we used the single/double m notation all the time. But, then again, we're crazy to call things "basis points" when all they are turns out to be hundredths of a percent. Why make up new terms? Because we can!
There are only a few tourist railroads in North America that operate steam on every train, with diesels only used for yard, switching, and freight duties if they haul freight as well, Strasburg, Cumbres & Toltec, and not sure what else. Most steam tourist railroads have diesels as backup because steam locomotives require more maintenance and have go down for their teardown and inspection every so often. Conway with only one operable steam locomotive operates more diesel trains and it's probably hit or miss when 7470 operates. Steamtown in Scranton on the other hand only has #26 yard switcher running on short rides and I believe right now it is down and all longer excursions are diesel powered at this time. Reading and Northern is the only railroad in the northeast right now with a large steam locomotive running and longer all day excursions with steam. Unless you count the 611 running right now in Virginia. Some areas of the country have no steam around for miles, like Alabama which has no tourist railroads but TVRM is in neighboring Tennessee and has 102 mile round trips into Georgia with steam. NS had some excursions with TVRM into Alabama and out of Birmingham several years ago.
Valley RR in Essex CT is all steam for the main passenger runs. The evening dinner train does use a diesel switcher however. Here's a shot of me doing their Hand on the Throttle, well worth it if you're interested in running steam. This engine is one of the Chinese 2-8-0's imported to the the US. They redid the tender and appliances to look more live a NH engine.
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@Scotie posted:Valley RR in Essex CT is all steam for the main passenger runs. The evening dinner train does use a diesel switcher however. Here's a shot of me doing their Hand on the Throttle, well worth it if you're interested in running steam. This engine is one of the Chinese 2-8-0's imported to the the US. They redid the tender and appliances to look more live a NH engine.
I so want to do that. Was going to do it with my son before he went in the Army, the stars never aligned. Someday
I was hesitant but my wife insisted I go. Did both the steam and diesel--a never to be forgotten experience. They offer them at the beginning and end of their regular operating season.
