A Plea To Online Train Dealers

I used to be a project manager at a "dot-com".  I see all five of these issues all the time on numerous toy train dealer web sites.

 

Let me add Site 6 and Site 7 to the list, too:

 

Site 6)  No e-mail address other than a free e-mail account from gmail, yahoo or someplace else on your web site or, even worse, on your return e-mail to me.  (Too expensive?  Come on; you're in business, right?  Get your own domain name with a corresponding e-mail address so you look and act like a legitimate business.  Heck, go to Godaddy.com and get e-mail service in your own for five years @ $6.99 per month which would include ten e-mail addresses in your domain.)  If you can't afford your own e-mail address, how do you afford to be in business?

 

Site 7)  Prior year products for run of the mill train items, locomotives and rolling stock still sit on your shelf and website, unsold, but you still want full MSRP for them?  I was in the market, credit card in hand, for a certain locomotive early last year.  I could not get over how five of the dealers who had the item (a 2006 catalog item) still wanted full MSRP.  Cut me a break.  Does any dealer seriously believe everything made in O-gauge from street lights to locomotives gains in value while sitting on your shelf for years?  You have a six year old item sitting on your shelf unsold, probably costing  you interest with the bank, and you're unwilling to make any discount at all if someone wanted to buy it today?  Better yet, does the banker who provides your line of credit know that you turn down an immediate, discounted sale on a common prior year item, preferring to maybe get an MSRP sale sometime, somehow, in the future?

 

 

I agree... A few weeks ago I called up a dealer because they showed 5 units in stock for a particular item.  I also noticed that many other items showed 5 units in stock.  When I called to verify I was told that the items were out of stock.  I got the excuse that the store only had three people. I've also spent a lot of time and effort following up on the MTH product locator. My success rate is about 10%.  This isn't MTH's fault.. many dealers aren't keeping their inventories updated.  I got tired of hearing "Oh I better take that off MTH's locator".  "You're about the third caller I had for that item" .  Ya think?

 

Sunrise

 

Sunrise

I agree about these websites, and I can determine the actual site from the descriptions.

 

I had placed an order, no conformation email, no shipping notification. On top of that after receiving the package, I find that some of the items I ordered was out of stock, the invoice states "re-order".

 

Really?

 

How hard is it to tie your inventory database to the storefront? If they are keeping inventory with paper, then they really should not have a web storefront.

 

On the other hand, I have ordered items from smaller hobby shops with great satisfaction. During the check out process, It notifies you that the amount you ordered is NOT available (eg: ordered 5, only 4 in stock). Plus you get a conformation email on the order and also a shipping notification (makes me happy )

.

Other sites that need a redo badly. These are the old time favorites for track and accessories. These guys make a great product, but the web site basically s**cks.

You guys may get more web traffic if you update the site (Gargraves, Ross Custom Swicthes, Z-Stuff). The sites qualify for "websites that s**ck" (this is actually a site on what not to do to a web site).

 

I agree. I've seen some good sites and some bad. But the quality of a commercial site reflects on the business. I know that these merchants are in the train business and not the website business, but they need to keep things up to date or the site starts getting ignored.

Pat,

 

Couldn't agree more with your site #7 remark. I called a place about 6 months ago for a MTH item that was 11yrs old and showed two items in their inventory. He wanted list price even if I bought both items, told me his boss wouldn't allow him to discount. He can keep them both forever for all I care.

 

Joe B

I'm with Frank53 on this one, I always phone in my dealer orders then theres no wondering if or when.  It certainly does not take any longer to place the order. I know one large dealer that will take exchange of a defective item with a phone call.

 

There are also a few dealer with less than stellar websites that have a HUGE selection of new old stock at fantastic prices making a simple phone call more than worthwhile.

 

I did not. I drove up to the LHS and hope that they had what I needed. If I had to order something I could, but that would require driving back to the LHS (35 miles) and it would be several weeks before the item showed up. So I buy a lot of stuff from the net, including christmas trees (yes, They deliver it the day I want it and the tree has not been sitting on the lot since OCT 31 becoming a match-stick)

 

Regardless of what some think, the problems chipset has brought to light do in fact exist and therefore they need to be dealt with.

 

Making a phone call while letting this situation continue, will not fix these problems unless that phone call is to tell the online dealer he needs to fix hie website.

 

Actually, if someone's website is that bad, a phone call is in order, they may not know just how bad it is unless customers speak up.

 

Not only online dealers, but manufacturer's web site have faulty data as well.

 

Most of them have a tab for "Dealers" that carry their product, but when you go to the dealers website (or call) they don't have anything in stock and haven't carried that brand in years.  The manufacturers never seem to update that data.

The "problems" discussed in this thread aren't limited to toy trains. Not all that long ago I ordered half a dozen swiss army knifes from an online dealer that showed them as being in stock. After my order was accepted, including the credit card information, I received an email indicating the knifes were backordered. Since I needed them right away for gifts, I canceled the order.

Then they had the moxie to keep me on their email list.

I had used a discover secure online number, so no big deal on the credit card number.

As far as trains go, when I was buying newly made trains online, I used about six different dealers. I don't recall having any real issues with any of them.

One dealer sent me a damaged NOS Lionel (MPC) item (about 15-20 years old). They exchanged it no problems. Maybe I wasn't demanding enough.

I see a generational divide here.  People 50 and younger are trained to buy via a well-run secure internet connection with easy to use menu pages and check-out.  We expect to find the same kind of easy on-line shopping experience we find in our other pursuits. 

 

An example comes from the boating world.  If I want a gallon of bottom paint, or a #8 oval head Tobin Bronze Wood Screw, I know that I can go to the Jamestown Distributors website, find it, click on it, check-out and see it on my doorstep in three business days.  I've never had to pick up a phone.  And they e-mail their sale specials to me all the time.  And I've bought quite a few of those sale items.

 

Train stuff?  I haven't found a site out there that's anywhere near as easy to use.  Heck, eBay delivers a better shopping experience! 

 

If you want a younger demo, y'all better get up to speed!  It's how people shop today.

 

Jon

I think alot of businesses and manufacturers too easily forget that their website IS the store front for anyone who isn't within a stones throw of their shop. The entire point of a website is to expand your audience and potential sales. To many of us on the other side of the continent - the website is all we have - and how it looks and functions will make or break our decision to buy - or leave.

 

If the only reason you put up a site was to keep folks from nagging you about not having one - then take it down and deal with the nags. You are most probably wasting time and money - and more probable than not - you are also aggravating customers you don't even know.

 

If you're not seeing sales come in from your website - the question is why not? There are numerous reasons - and to not know 'why not' is hurting everything you've tried to build.

 

That said, websites are not a dime a dozen - although there are several dozen not worth a dime.  Take a good look at your site - and leave the 'cool' factor on the curb. Focus on function, security, and navigation. All those flashing and dancing animations may attract some initial attention - but past a few seconds of runtime - they'll make a freight train take a dirt road out of there. Those dead-end links and no pic listings are perfect escape routes when disappointment exceeds want.

 

BUT!!!!  It is your business. And everybody else gets to choose where they spend their money.

I have been playing with computers for over 35 years but I still don't mind using a telephone (or cell phone) to order.  Why?  Because the reality is just as has been described above...  realtime inventory numbers are the exception rather than the rule.  I could get all upset about this (and I understand why it is frustrating) but I just pick up the phone and order.  I have never had a problem with this.

 

What puzzles me is that someone feels safer ordering through an online website than via a cell phone.  Maybe I am naive but I don't think there are that many people eavesdropping on our cell calls (other than the NSA, that is). 

Oh, I forgot to mention the 1996 version $1700 Lionel B unit selling on one of our sponsors websites!

That has to be a typo, as the new one is only $379.

Hysterical !!!

 

Frank, you are my man.

 

This is one of the better threads.

I love when threads defy logic.

 

For goodness sakes, make a phone call.

This one is right up there with:

What would you do if a peanut butter sandwich . . . . . . . . ?

 

LOLOL

Scrappy

I am under 40 and for major purchases I always call and want to speak to a human being and get the name.  Computers are great but they have shortcomings.

 

RL:  You hit the best reason for using a phone -- to talk to a "real" person who can easily answer any questions and give you the latest info, and to follow up with if there are any future problems/questions.

1) ordered and no problems,  Trainworld, in stock

2) ordered and no probems -  Pats Trains, in stock

3) ordered and no problems - Grzy-ski, trains, in stock

4) ordered and no problems -  Evans, few others

5) just ordered and no probl-  Eastside Trains

6) ordered and no problems, - Frank53, Hugh Labis, Alex, Al, Principal Rookie,

          Martin, Bob Severin, Hollsc, many others

the thing about that group #6,  the product is ALWAYS IN THEIR HAND !

I guess I am waiting for the 1st boo- boo !!

ROTFL!

 

Now THAT was funny!

i've got to side with the distributors on this one.  please Mr. Retailer, give us the cheapest prices possible, but, oh yeah, hire a full time webmaster to update your specials daily not to mention having to enter hundreds of line items off catalogs that are already well supported on manufacturer web sites.

 

it's the manufacturers who need the good web support.

that's where most people window-shop before buying.

 

as long as the distributor/ retailer gives me a good price (1-800, etc... and i don't have to shop around, i know who they are) and delivers on time, i could care less if they have curtains on their windows or sweep the sidewalk.

      

Got to agree here.  You want full service hobby shop service at a lowest Internet price.  You can have your cake or eat it.

And if you are giving out credit card numbers, etc over cell phones then you are at fault for identity theft if it happens.  It only takes once and intelligent software based snooping near cell tower works great.

Some of you people seem not to realize that once you release your credit card numbers period, it's out of your hands and goes over an electronic connection.  Any phone line can be intercepted very easily, and giving that CC # over the phone you don't know what's happening to it.  Person could right it down and leave it on an open counter for all who come and go to see.  Risk is everywhere, get over it.  Paying attention to your accounts and setting up alerts is your best protections.  As always through out life, the best way to protect yourself from theft is to be vigilant.

 

As for websites, if you are going to have one, make it work don't bother with having it.  The point of web ordering is point and click convenience for those of us who want it.

 

Fact is, web ordering is typically quicker.  I used it as a purchaser for 5 years and it saved me 50% or more time versus phoning it in.  Live inventory prevented any issues of it not being in stock.

I know a dealer who only took orders by phone. When his webmaster told him he could have his website set up to take orders, the store owner told the webmaster don't even think about it. I want to talk to my customers.

Jim,

I remember that dealer.  He was a good talker.... he could sell ice cubes to the eskimos..... always hung up the phone ordering more than intended.

 

Sunrise

1) Trainworld is tops!

3) Grzy-ski trains...I need to check them out as I have seen his ads, but have not gone to his site yet.

 

 Also, the least secure communication medium is your "mailbox" outside your house.

You only have to flip open the door, reach in and grab bank statements or anything else.

Takes more talent a lot more talent to hack a website or "phone phreak".

Also, I bet those 1-800 numbers and the time spent on the phone cost more than go daddy web hosting.

 

To each his own I guess....

I guess if you are retired with too much time on your hands a phone call is a blessing, as you can talk and talk and chat and chat. Nothing wrong with that.

But, if you have a full time job and family, it is simply more efficient to point and click.

10 seconds later you are done.

 

Oh BTW, you guys that flamed "FlatNickel" need to learn how to read. Before there was the internet, of course DUH...he could have called and asked "Hey what do you have in stock"?

10 hours later after the LHS rattles off every item they have.....

Of course, he has to freaking drive to SEE what they have in the LHS!

 

Next time before you try to make him out as stupid, look at yourselves first. And frankly, the CEO, Webmaster, and Publisher making fun of "FlatNickel"...who is probably one of your subscribers and customers?

WOW....having watched your videos Mr Melvin...I thought you had more class than that.

Shame on you.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I think I know him, too!  Great at "up-selling" as well.  I hear he left the choo-choo business and went into commercial fishing, or some such.    

 

As for websites:  Yes, there are some awful ones out there, but so long as a dealer has what I'm looking for and at a decent price, I really don't much care what their website looks like.  The folks I deal with have never been a problem, website sale or otherwise.  That's why I continue to go back to them, although my "volume buying" days are pretty much over.

99.9% of what I order is through a few dealers web sites. No phone calls are needed. A few clicks of the mouse and that is it. 

 

Of course the dealers I buy from must have real time inventory and a first rate web site, if not i pass them by. 

 

For gods sake it is 2013, so keep up with the times and have a top notch web site with real time inventory. 

Was going to pass on weighing-in on this thread when I saw it the other day, but what the heck. It’s still alive.

 

Phone or web site? I think buyers can make their own personal decisions on this. To each their own. Frankly, I don’t care.

 

However, gotta agree with david1’s post above. If you put up a web site to do business online,  please make sure it’s up-to-date, easily navigable, has pics, and all the information needed for a buyer to successfully place an order. And, of course, make sure it’s secure.

 

Amazing to me how many major dealer web sites I’ve been to where the search function – which should be a potential buyer’s doorway into the store – is pretty much worthless.    

MTH had a great concept in the "Product Locator".  It's just too bad that it relies on the dealer to actually keep it up to date.

 

While I 100% agree that a well maintained website is key, making that phone call never hurts.

Here's a scare experience I had.  I ordered via pone a couple of engines from one of the major "on line" train stores.  Provided my card number and transaction went very well.  On my next months card statement I had several charges on my card at a gas station and department store made by someone in the same city as I ordered the trains from.  Fraudulant charges.  The city is 4,000 miles from where I live and I have not been to the city in over 20 years.  Lucky I was covered by my card company and they waived the charges. 

 

TEX

Steve

Folks, I like a functional website as much as the next person.  But it's FAR from being a show-stopper, since I believe business owners should choose how they want to structure their business practices.

 

When all is said and done, I still think people buy from people they like... whether the shop has a website or not.  Jim Sutter hit the nail on the head with his earlier post, and I get his point.

 

We've done a great job nowadays of eliminating the personal interaction component of everyday transactions, and I don't think we're any better for it.  Quite the contrary, it's brought out the worst in us IMHO, that we've taken just about everything we do and reduced it to grabbing the most we can at the cheapest price.  If that's your goal, more power to ya.  But I still prefer building a few key relationships with the dealers I've come to know over the years.  It just "feels right" some days, when you pick up the phone and the person on the other end actually knows who you are.  Yes, I know it's a strange concept to a growing number of folks nowadays, but I like it and I always will.    If I'm viewed as a dinosaur by some folks, then so be it.

 

David 

 

 

No one better knows dealer inventories than the dealers.

 

Sure, they could adopt a WalMart-type automated inventory tracking software that can automatically deduct from each sale on online shopping carts or from the regsiter and replicate back to the importer/mfgr own database, but that can be extremely complex to set up, not to mention expensive.

 

As to the original topic, I 100% agree.  Your online website is like a business card, and it is impressionable.  If your business card's information isn't up to date or looks sloppy, you lose customer confidence and sales.  Simple as that.  If you're not going to keep your inventory information current, whether it's because you don't have the time to do it or other resource shortage, then you need to re-evaluate that site and how it impacts your overall business from a prospective sales perspective.  If online ordering is too much work, then take that out of the equation, and just list on your site that you take ordering by phone/email only.  Something.  Just don't let your site languish.

Frank -

 

I work in IT, & I think while you are dead on with this.   I will use a website to search for an item, but 9 out of 10 times, I will call the store & talk to a real person to place & confirm the order.

Who else then?