Sign up for PayPal.  You get the money right away and they buyer does get some protection if the item is not as described.  There is a fee to use PayPal but it does provide a solution for you.

I agree, PayPal is the painless way, I've been using it for years.

Wait until the check clears and then send the item. Make sure that you put that information in the sales listing. That is what I will do if I ever decide to sell anything. The only exception (for me, anyway) would be if the buyer used a U. S. Postal money order (preferred by me), then I would ship upon receipt of it. Then what would happen is that I would take the item and the MO to the PO, cash the MO and then ship the  item. Just some of my thoughts.

It's all up to you. If somebody you don't know pays by check, you have the right to wait for it to clear. Most times when selling on the Forum to someone who has been here for a while I will send out the item once I receive payment. Never had an issue. Just do what you are comfortable with.

I do agree though, PayPal is the way to go. Simple to sign up and get started. That way you get payment right away.

I actually abhor P.O Money Orders, I have to shag to the bank to use those.  Most post offices will turn you away because they don't have the funds to cash them.  PP or a check I can cash from the comfort of my computer chair.

thanks John.  Won't allow money orders then.  But what about the timing aspect?  I'm selling something in the $300 range and don't want to take a chance.  Like I said, if it's someone from the forum that I kinda 'know' that's one thing, but a stranger?  That's a different game to me.

- walt

If you're selling to someone you don't know, get the money and make sure it's cleared, then ship the item.  Be careful of checks with people you don't know, sometimes they can initially clear and then bounce back.  If I'm at all suspicious of the payment, I wait about 10 days before shipping to make sure the check isn't going to bounce back.

It's pretty simple.....you don't ship your item until the funds are in your hands. I agree, PayPal is really the way to go...

Don't take checks.  Who in the name of all that's holy writes checks anyway??  Once someone pays with paypal or venmo or similar, you have your money.  Then it is incumbent on you to ship the item promptly.  I understand the reluctance of the online first timer.  My brother in law still won't buy stuff online.  What are we, animals?

@walt rapp posted:

I don't have PayPal and since I'm not a business obviously I can't take a charge card payment.

Sign up for PayPal, now you take credit cards!

Don't use the Friends & Family free transfer option. There is no protection for you or the buyer. Instead, use PayPal to generate a legitimate invoice.

If a seller doesn't want to absorb the PayPal fees, I offer to do the transaction with a legitimate invoice for the purchase of the item and then when they email me a copy of their fees incurred, send them the fee amount via the free Friends & Family option.  It's a little more cost for the buyer but it makes the seller whole and keeps everybody honest.

Walt, Like others have said,use PayPal. It's Safe and Easy! 

Great question.  Obviously there has to be some trust involved somewhere along the line.  I have bought numerous items on the OGR Forum and have yet to be disappointed.  The moderators do a great job monitoring the forum.  I usually pay by personal check or cashier's check.  After the seller receives the funds, the item is usually mailed with a tracking number in a couple of days.  Some members sell frequently, while others only sell when they have no use for the items. Sometimes negotiations are in order, sometimes not.  It depends on the seller.  The item will be listed with OBO. (or best offer).  Most items are realistically priced; the seller will get the true value out of the product and the buyer will get an item at a considerable discount.  Always check the seller's profile.  A lot can be gleaned from this information.  A seller who only has been a member a short time should raise red flags (but not always). Never post your e-mail address or phone number in the ad.  This information should only be available in your profile, so only members can access it.  It has been my experience that the members of this forum are honest and trustworthy.  Caveat Emptor

Walt, from a buyer's perspective, I would NEVER buy anything on-line using a check or money order since those payment methods offer me, the buyer, ZERO protection--it's the equivalent of handing cash to the seller and hoping you get what you expected to get--there is NO recourse if the seller doesn't treat you right/honestly.

With PayPal, not PayPal "friends and family," it's like buying with a credit card--you have some protection for your purchase.  For those sellers who don't want to pay PP's fee (~3%) and want buyers to use Friends and Family, I insist on paying the fee, if that makes sense in the overall cost, to protect my purchase.

Bottom line, open a PP account and if you want to accept checks or M.O, you can.  But a buyer like me won't touch what is essentially a non-recourse payment method involving real money.

I know folks that don't have PP and I still trust them.  In that case, I'll send them a check.  If I don't know the person, he doesn't get a check from me.

@PRRMP54 posted:

Wait until the check clears and then send the item...

That USED to be good advice.  Back in the day, if the check cleared, that was it.  However, times have changed - banks can (and do) come back to you with a bad check a long time after it clears.  This is also a problem with cashier's checks - forgeries are common.  Unfortunately, there's just no good way to take any kind of check unless you trust the other person.  IANAL, but I think that sending a bad check is mail fraud, but is that a fight you want to have?  

If buyer and seller are both TCA members, it's customary to send the item and trust that the check will clear.  I've asked a lot of members, and nobody can recall getting a bad check.  Keep in mind that TCA won't help resolve the issue.  

That said, I agree with several posts above - I'd still stick with PayPal.

FYI on those taking Friends and Family payments.  If the person pays F&F through PayPal they can still file a claim with their cc company against you, receive their funds back, and your still out the item you shipped.  These scams are documented and have happened, I know of this originally as it happened on an RC Helicopter forum I used to frequent.  Because it's F&F PayPal will not get involved, and will follow the CC companies lead.  The good and services option is the only way both buyer and seller are protected.  Calculate this into your cost.  

Also Venmo is not a protected payment method.  It's like F&F and Venmo is owned by PP.

As for trusting people you know on the forum, the insurance of PP is still the way to go.  I have seen good people who I trusted lose their jobs/income and get desperate.  So be extra cautious especially right now all things considered.  This goes for businesses too, a lot of people are struggling unfortunately.

Get PayPal.  I've been using it for at least 15 years. 

This topic reminds me of something funny that happened to me 2 years ago.  I was selling a table saw on Craigslist for $250.  A guy came to see it.  After looking it over, he said he'd like to buy it and he whipped out his checkbook.  I almost laughed!  I couldn't believe it.  He was an old-timer and appeared to be a genuinely nice guy.  He seemed flabbergasted that I wouldn't accept his check.  I sort of felt bad.  I told him I'd hold onto the saw while he went to an ATM less than a mile up the road.  He never returned.

@TexasSP posted:

FYI on those taking Friends and Family payments.  If the person pays F&F through PayPal they can still file a claim with their cc company against you, receive their funds back, and your still out the item you shipped.  These scams are documented and have happened, I know of this originally as it happened on an RC Helicopter forum I used to frequent.  Because it's F&F PayPal will not get involved, and will follow the CC companies lead.  The good and services option is the only way both buyer and seller are protected.  Calculate this into your cost.  

Also Venmo is not a protected payment method.  It's like F&F and Venmo is owned by PP.

That is true, with friends and family someone buying something can still file a complaint with their credit card company, and while the credit card company in theory is supposed to follow through, as they would with a credit card transaction, given that paypal F and F doesn't have dispute resolution it means that F and F isn't safe either way, seller and buyer have little recourse with it, that should only be for people you trust (I have used it to buy stuff on here). 

Checks work , but I agree with what other posters have written, to wait before shipping because checks can 'clear' quickly, and then it turns out the money wasn't there in the account, and I would make clear to the person sending the check that you will ship it after X days (5 business days likely would tell you if it was good or not I would guess). Postal MO's are safe, but require putting them into the bank as a deposit, you can't as far as I know use a mobile app to scan it in like you can with checks). 

PayPal (not friends and family) is the most universally accepted escrow type service to address your concerns that I've seen. I really think twice if PayPal cannot be used on the transaction as there are no protections with PayPal friends and Family, Vemo, Zelle, Check, Money Order or similar. Sure PayPal has it's highlighted horror stories, but show me something so widely adopted that doesn't?

If you personally know the person and trust them, or trust the structure of an organization like the TCA, it is up to you to accept those risks of using alternate payment methods.

As others here have said,

SIGN UP FOR PAYPAL!

That makes it easy for everyone to do business with you. Nobody writes checks any more. I just checked my personal and business accounts. I have not written a check for anything in over two years.

Yes, PayPal charges a fee. Build it into your price. The convenience factor makes it worth the fee because it will be so much easier for people to buy whatever it is your are selling.

Walt,

My advice echos what many have stated here:

1) Get Paypal - it's easy to get an account and use.

2) If you want to accept checks call your bank and ask them about an app you can download that allows you to take a picture of the check and deposit to your account using your phone, laptop or pc.  Some banks will use a specific app.  This eliminates the hassle of actually going to a bank.  Personally, I rarely take a check and then if I do, it's from someone I know (either in person or they are an active poster here). It's just a hassle to me.

3) With respect to when you ship an item:  If it's a check, I do what NJCJOE does - if I know the person, or it's a small amount, I will ship the item before the check clears.  I've even shipped items if I'm told the check is in the mail.  This is because I usually have a bunch of items to ship and a particular day happens to be convenient for me to ship an item - so I don't wait for the check and take a small risk.  I've never been burned yet.  The bottom line is do whatever you are comfortable with.  It's not considered unacceptable to wait until a check clears to mail an item. 

If you get paid via Paypal it's usually customary to ship the item within two days.  Regardless, just be upfront with the person as to when you will ship.   I always provide the tracking number to the buyer as well.

Good luck!

-Greg

Also note you can ship directly through PP using USPS, FedEx, or UPS.  This gives the tracking number straight to the buyer.  One word of advice, do not ship through a UPS store.  These are franchises and there upcharges are quite large.  You can drop off a UPS labeled package at any UPS store regardless.

Last November someone out of state tried attaching a PayPal account to my bank account.  Fortunately, I caught it and had PP put a brick on my accounts so no one can attach PP, not even me.

This was part of an identity theft attempt that originated somewhere in the Amazon supply chain.

So, you'll have to forgive me for not being enthusiastic about some of these modern conveniences.

Rusty

@Rusty Traque posted:

So, you'll have to forgive me for not being enthusiastic about some of these modern conveniences.

@bmoran4 posted:

Sure PayPal has it's highlighted horror stories, but show me something so widely adopted that doesn't?

Bad things can happen, thieves have been around since the dawn of time.  However, there are more protections put in place now than ever.  I have all of my cards and accounts setup with alerts and permissions.  If something strange happens, I get notified immediately and can remedy right then.  In the past, if someone stole a check or checkbook from you right away and you didn't notice, it could take weeks or more before you even knew.  And recovery was much more difficult.  Identity theft itself is also nothing new, just different ways of doing it.  Always be vigilant.

@MikeH posted:

 

@Rusty Traque posted:

So, you'll have to forgive me for not being enthusiastic about some of these modern conveniences.

@bmoran4 posted:

Sure PayPal has it's highlighted horror stories, but show me something so widely adopted that doesn't?

Obviously, you've never had an attempt on your identity.   It's a gut-retching experience.  I've always monitored my credit cards and bank accounts closely. 

Haven't ordered anything from Amazon since.  Once trust is burned, it takes a long time to get back.

I've since set up LifeLock and it caught two more attempts shortly after the first one.

Rusty

What are these "checks" you speak of? 

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I actually abhor P.O Money Orders, I have to shag to the bank to use those.  Most post offices will turn you away because they don't have the funds to cash them.  PP or a check I can cash from the comfort of my computer chair.

I have been cashing PO. Money Orders at the POs here in Birmingham for years. Never have been turned away. I usually take packages to one of the larger POs in the area not what I would call a neighborhood PO. that may explain my success at cashing MOs.  Another caution,  NEVER, take a store bought MO,  only allow USPS MOs. bought at a USPS PO. I have on many occasions shipped items from my mailbox before cashing the USPS MO. but that is because they are just as secure as PP though not as convenient.          j

@Rusty Traque posted:

Obviously, you've never had an attempt on your identity.   It's a gut-retching experience.  I've always monitored my credit cards and bank accounts closely. 

Haven't ordered anything from Amazon since.  Once trust is burned, it takes a long time to get back.

I've since set up LifeLock and it caught two more attempts shortly after the first one.

Rusty

From the sounds of it, the identity theft was NOT PayPal's fault. Unfortunately, identity theft is a part of this world and nobody is immune. You can do things to minimize the risk, and I would argue using PayPal is one of those, especially when weighed against giving out your bank account number to a stranger (it is included on every bank check!).

Pay pal for me too, plus you get a pretty good discount with USPS. You can print the shipping label off the e mail you will get from da bay. 

@JohnActon posted:

I have been cashing PO. Money Orders at the POs here in Birmingham for years. Never have been turned away.

That's keen if you're close to a large PO, but all the local ones don't have the cash on hand to cash a $400-$500 or more MO.  At least, that's their story...

I forgot to add the bank account I use for Paypal is at a different bank than than my primary account and is only used for Paypal.   While our identities are always at risk from numerous avenues at least thieves won't get much money if they are able to get through all the security protocols in place at the bank.

I also never access from anywhere but my pc and I never register the device and have a two-step identification process in place to access.  Yes, it's overboard, but I had a similar experience to Rusty's in the early 2000's and don't ever want to have to deal with it again.   Fortunately, in my case the thief was after my money and not identity and was caught and prosecuted.

-Greg

Good point Greg, I do the same thing.  I have a "train" account at a credit union that has no connection to our regular bank account.

The only thing that's linked to my PayPal account is one credit card.  Would never attach a bank account or debit card to any online merchant or payment system.  Using only the credit card provides an additional layer of protection if fraud occurs.  I strongly suggest NEVER using a debit card for anything other than ATM withdrawals. 

Nothing is perfect, but someone will have to either hack my bank or my employer in order to have a chance to get at my bank account.  Yes, it COULD happen, but I could also get mugged or drop my wallet, too.  Nothing is without risk.

Same here on the train account, easy to do and convenient as well. 

PS Walt, I hope your not selling that pretty Blue Comet!!

I agree with what many of already said: Of course cash is king, but not always practical. I have a no bank fee checking account that I use exclusively for PayPal sales which normally never has a balance of over $20 as I move receipts immediately to other accounts. Purchases made with PayPal are automatically charged to my Amex card (hence both PP & Amex protection against fraudulent sellers). I will accept USPS money orders as fraud using those is a federal crime. I do not accept bank, Western Union or other money orders as they offer no protection; the same goes for cashiers checks and bank drafts. For large dollar amount international transactions I require an irrevocable letter of credit. I take checks from people I know or who are frequent posters here.

Finally with PayPal friends & family: as a seller I usually ask the buyer to add 3% and as a purchaser I add it even if the seller asks for F&F otherwise I would be cheating a legitimate business (PP).

I use eBay exclusively. If you price the item fairly, it will sell. I use PayPal and never ship before being paid. If you follow PayPal rules, you won’t get stiffed even though there are unscrupulous buyers. I’ve had several instances where PayPal had to eat some $$’s. 

sold over $400,000 trains on eBay and have no complaints. Well maybe one, PayPal eats 3.1 percent of it all and eBay eats 10%. Where else can you get worldwide exposure for that amount.

make sure your pricing is reasonable( 50 % of retail, that nobody pays, is a good deal) and be conservative about quality ratings. A model train that’s many years old and has been out of the box is NOT new. 

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

That's keen if you're close to a large PO, but all the local ones don't have the cash on hand to cash a $400-$500 or more MO.  At least, that's their story...

 Right John, NOTHING beats the convenience of PayPal.   I just wanted Walt to know that there is a viable secure alternative.  Not to mention the cost of a MO is much lower than the 3% PP charges. Before PP I always used USPS MOs as that was the most secure method to carry out long distance transactions.  I once bought a camera lens from a famous NYC camera store when I did not hear from them for over a month I called them and they refused to honor the price in their magazine ad. They just sat on my money for a month without informing me. When I finally called them they said they would not ship my lens without $40 more dollars.  The latest issue of Popular Photography had come a day earlier and the lens was still advertised for the same price.  I told the man that he was practicing "Bait and Switch" and he hung up on me.   I got in my car and drove to the main PO here in Birmingham and asked to speak with the local postmaster. I showed the lady the two magazine ads and she said "Don't worry I'll fix this" She took the number of the MO I had sent the man and made a copy of the ad and said that If I did not hear from the camera store by end of day tomorrow to contact her.  By the time I drove home the phone was ringing when I walked through the door and sure enough the man who had hung up on me was on the phone apologizing profusely and pledging the lens would be in the mail by noon the next day.   The Postmaster lady did call me the next day she said she was certain, when I told her my story, the seller would not want to be arrested for postal fraud.  I must also state that I have been very critical of the USPS in other areas but in this one area the USPS excels even if not as convenient as PP.          j

Make sure you require a signature. Anyone can say it wasn't on their porch when they got home. They then collect the refund and have a train for free. Also, never trust emails from PayPal or click on the link in their emails to check on an issue. Instead, use your address bar and check if there's any messages for you when you get to the site. I've been getting emails that look authentic and ask you to verify your user name and password. If you click on the email link and do what they want, they now have access to your PayPal account and can send a payment to themselves.