Does anybody know the consist of the NYC to Miami Champion when it had FEC cars mixed in? I've researched a bit, but got no direct car by car info. I know they had a sleeper and a coach, did they have their own baggage car or combine, did they use the ACL diner or bring their own?
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Where have you looked thusfar?
June 1954 Official Guide East Coast Champion:
4 ea NYC - Miami coaches
1 ea NYC - Jax coach
1 ea 10-6 sleeper NYC - Jax
1 ea 10-6 slwwpwe NYC - Miami
1 ea 6 dbr - bar-lounge NYC - Miami
2 ea diner NYC- Miami
1 ea tavern-lounge-obs NYC - Miami
And a big Happy New Year to each and every one of you,
ChipR
There was, most likely, a baggage car to handle checked baggage, NYC - MIA. Most inter-line passenger trains mixed the cars from each of the involved railroads based upon their respective mileage.
ChipR
Thanks for the input. Also, ChipR's wording gave me an idea to search again and found all kinds of info on consists and schedules for ACL/FEC connections all over, from www.getcruising.com/rails/
I have several Champion and Florida Special consists on my computer at home. Many came from older Wayner books in the 70s. What specific years are you looking for? There was usually a good mix of Pennsy sleepers during the 1940s/50s. Pennsy head end cars were a usual sight as well. Will upload my list later tonight.
Do you have Larry Goolsby's book on postwar ACL passenger trains? He has a good selection of ACL consists listed, but many are from the 1960s.
Yes, I have Goolsby's book. Just trying for the NYC to JAX run. late 40's into the 60's. It is such a mishmash of equipment, heavyweights and streamline, various road name baggage and RPO and even mix in the FEC cars that are out of state and not confined to FLA. It a great train to put all your mismatched cars in and be somewhat accuratte. Also have the link to the passenger car list at this site - http://www.getcruising.com/rails/
Lot of regional stuff there.
Why would the FEC cars be confined to FL? The East Coast Champion is a NYC to MIA on the PRR, RF&P, ACL and FEC. Cars from all 4 railroads were used over entire run.
ChipR
A good generic Champion from the 1940s/50s era would have 1-3 express baggage, 1-3 express reefers and 4-6 sleepers on the rear from various eastern railroads. Coaches in between were a mix, but with more ACL. I think there was even a Southern coach listed in one of my consists. The ACL E-units even stayed on north of Washington, since I have seen images of these under catenary.
Starting in the mid 60s, the Union Pacific cars showed up, leased for extra traffic. The ACL, and later SCL, were definitely technicolor well before the interesting Amtrak trains of the early 70s.
The FEC was the only Class I railroad that never left the state. Of course freight cars did, but their passenger consists except for a few exceptions on trains that seemed to terminate or originate in JAX, they stayed in FLA as far as I know..
Let me check my consists when I get home, but I think some of the sleepers ventured northward. It may have been that way during the early to mid 40s when the Champion was still relatively new, but by 1950 onward anything was game based on traffic volume. The FEC E-units never left the state that I know of, and maybe the round end obs cars. I know a FEC streamlined baggage was in a consist in Florence,SC during 1956, as pictured in Goolsby's book.
Larry
ACL E units serving under PRR wire north of DC was a rare moment in history. During a freak February 1958 snow storm blowing wind and unusually fine flakes combined to short out traction motors on a large number of GG1's. To move trains the PRR resorted to using passenger diesels under the wires. Does anyone know in addition to ACL E units did Southern, C&O, RF&P, or SAL power also haul trains north of Washington in the aftermath of the storm?
Ed Rappe
The Burlinton had an interchange with the Southern, and the SOU interchanged with most of the SE railroads, so trying to justify a Burlington coach in my consists instead of changing it's worth by renaming it with an FEC decal set--Bruce Y., still can't deface it. The IC had an entire train departing JAX southbound, locomotives too, on ACL tracks with a couple foreign cars thrown in, as noted by pictures in Goolsby's book. Another road name to be on the look out for. I lived 39 years in JAX and saw all this in real time, but when it comes to modeling, FLA is too flat, so have to look northward to gain some more rolling terrain and mix in the various RR's. Short interchange trains that went from Moncrief Yard to FEC's Bowden yard would cross Atlantic Blvd. at a very slow speed after just crossing the St. John's River, and if the last car was a flat car I could catch the 4 mile ride to Love Grove Ave when I was in HS. Convenient that the train slowed and sometimes stopped at Love Grove(now University Blvd) and the throat tract to Bowden and I could jump off and continue to walk home. Had to stop when they started having an FEC yardman ride the last car. Dumb? Sure it was, but I was 15 and indestructible.
I think that Illinois Central train was the South Wind. The ACL had some cars painted in the maroon and orange scheme for the train. Wonder if that train scene was after the FEC strike? Seems more like SCL operations than ACL.
As for the Burlington, I do not remember seeing anything from that road in the consists.
Here are the consists I have for the ACL and FEC. Sources for the consists listed at the end of the list. There are others in various publications. They list the cars at the train's location, but not there destination (mainly sleepers). Still good data to simulate the train for a given year.
Larry, thanks for doing all that leg work and typing. That is a great list
Here are some more FEC-ACL consists, though some might be duplicates. These came from Robert Wayner's consist books, covering 1923 to 1962. Enjoy!
Larry, another extensive list with a wealth of info. You need to post it on the site as reference material. Thanks for all the work.
Charlie
I don't have the Wayner books. Twilight of the Great Trains, by Fred Frailey is the primary reference I use for passenger train consists. There are two editions: the original, and an expanded one. It's available on Amazon for about $35.00.
The book contains a chapter on the ACL/SAL/SCL Florida trains.
Each chapter has an interesting and accurate essay on the 20th century history of the particular railroad's passenger service, and diagrams showing what type of cars ran between which terminals on various trains. Fred Frailey can be trusted to research thoroughly, and then write in a way that is both informative and interesting.
In Joseph M. Welsh's book "By Streamliner, New York to Florida" on page 125 he lists the consist for PRR train 105, southbound East Coast Champion, November 6, 1963, taken in Newark NJ:
PRR GG1 (number unknown)
ACL 105 Baggage-Dorm
ACL 203 60-seat coach
ACL 217 54-seat coach
ACL 249 54-seat coach
ACL 227 54-seat coach
ACL 255 Tavern-Lounge
ACL Newark Diner
ACL Beaufort County 10-6 Sleeper
ACL Jay Bird 7-2 Sleeper
PRR Bucks County 10-6 Sleeper
FEC Bahamian 10-6 Sleeper
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