Guys, the advertising could be so much different. When I use other apps on my computer, I have to wade through ads for so many things that I really don't care about. I come here and it's like a candy store - all the ads have to do with trains! It's a joy to see what's new and who has what specials going on. And I really don't care if someone does multiple posts. In my humble opinion, it's not excessive.
Been so busy trying to keep the advertisers we have (some are very worried) that I just found this thread this morning and have been reading and responding.
I do want to say thank you to all of you that support OGR through your subscriptions and advertising/sponsorships. I sincerely wish all of you the very best as we all go through these unusual and trying times. Most importantly, I want all of you to be safe and healthy.
If you have the means, all of us small businesses will appreciate your support through your purchases. If there was ever a time we all needed to support one another (regardless of our various opinions on certain situations and topics) this is the time. Since this topic is about the forum and how advertising keeps it free for the members....let me try to give you more info about how we got to where we are right now in those regards..... For all practical purposes, the forum is a separate entity business wise from the magazine. As you can imagine, the costs to produce the magazine are more than the costs to run the forum....but the costs are different in each of those two cases. Zeroing in on the forum....as it grew over the years, the costs went from very little to considerable. Considerable at this point is tens of thousands of dollars per year. Why the heck does it cost so much you ask...especially when I can have my own website hosted for a few dollars per month. Well....it would take several pages to respond to that question so I invite you to do some research on the cost for a business to have a website as large are ours combined with the forum. There are many thousands of pages just on the forum that we pay for...and some of our costs are based on the number of page views. Last month we had well over 9 million page views! This month....oh boy....looks like we will have to dig a little deeper into our pockets cause I think the page views are going to go way up!
Years ago when there was a discussion to have a forum membership fee, it was made clear by most of the membership that they would not support such a fee....so.....how else do we keep the forum going? Well...it is obvious we had to have advertisers. Even recently....last year I believe....I proposed a membership fee of just a few dollars per year that would also offer members some bonuses, etc. Again, it was clear that the support for such a proposal was not there. If the forum was much smaller....lets say a few hundred members....then the costs would be very small but this forum has over 25,000 registered members with 3 times that many that come here and read and buy products from the sponsors! We have 90,000 plus IP addresses that visit here each month! Yet, we have committed to allowing only hobby related advertising rather than ad pop-ups like nearly all other forums have. We have resisted accepting ads for drugs, cars, real estate, investments, you name it! We will continue to do so as long as we have enough sponsors and subscribers. Right now we need both subscriptions and advertisers since neither one by itself pays the costs of producing the magazine and forum. Here on the forum MOST of you do not subscribe to the magazine. I have had many tell me that they don't intend on subscribing because they get the info they need here on the forum for free and can go to Facebook and Youtube for the rest (both of those use a lot of advertising popping up within the discussion groups).
All that I ask is that you consider what I have said above as you enjoy the forum (and hopefully a subscription to the magazine..print and/or digital). Please do what you can to support the hobby and our advertisers in a positive way.
Thanks for reading all of this...sorry for it being so long!
All My Best....
O Gauge Jim posted:Seriously, I have absolutely no problem with the increase in ads. Many of our dealers and suppliers are walking a very thin line during this down economy and we need to do everything we can to support them. Jim
As a former dealer in the model train industry, I would like to add that most dealers are walking a thin line in the best of times to bring us the products and services we all want and need. So, at this hard time especially, support our dealers and don't complain about the ads.
Alan, Very well said! Thank you and all the OGR staff for making the great magazine and Forum available. I thought as much on the information you shared, but had no idea on the numbers involved. I'm thankful for every one of our sponsors, and am happy to have them advertise! I just wish I had more disposable cash so I could purchase more from our sponsors. 
OGR FORUM KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK I LOVE IT
Alan, I find your points compelling and just renewed early for two more years.
Rich and Alan,
While I see no problem with ads on the forum and support the advertisers when possible, I can't say the same about email blasts. While certainly not sent excessively by OGR, is there nevertheless a way to opt out of receiving them while still retaining membership on this forum?
Btw, it's any and all email blasts I dislike, not just those from OGR sponsors.
ogaugeguy posted:Rich and Alan,
While I see no problem with ads on the forum I can't say the same about email blasts. While certainly not sent excessively by OGR, is there nevertheless a way to opt out of receiving them while still retaining membership on this forum?
Btw, it's any and all email blasts I dislike, not just those from OGR sponsors.
Well....what can I say after everything I said above.... If the recent email blasts annoy you, all you have to do is to scroll to the bottom and click on "unsubscribe". When you do that, keep in mind you are completely off of our list for any and all emails in the future....including reminders we send about upcoming subscription renewals, specials, etc. It up to you....
I want to add a little to what Alan posted, and give you an idea of the hardware required to host this forum.
This is a typical server rack of the type used where this forum is hosted. Not all of the equipment in this picture is used for this forum, but it's a great example of the level of hardware behind the scenes needed to run a forum of this size. It's not just a PC sitting on a desk somewhere!
Attachments
ALAN: THANK YOU for that perspective on the economic aspects of the magazine and the forum! I fully comprehend and I stand corrected! THANK YOU for your astute and patient leadership!
Rich, That is great you posted that photograph. Having been involved with the hardware and network side that kind of equipment for the last 20 years of a long career; I can attest to the technology, complexity, and CO$T of such! It is amazing the dollar amounts associated with the work orders I wrote once I moved from technician to engineer before retiring. It had occurred to me long ago as I realized the volume of information stored, backups, and network connections needed to provide this Forum that this is no 'small potatoes' operation! Thank you and Alan again for the insight for all who care to read this topic!! 
BTW for the readers' information, my hobby budget is not very large, but I have a print and online subscription to OGR just to help pay for the massive enjoyment and information I receive!
OGR CEO-PUBLISHER posted:ogaugeguy posted:Rich and Alan,
While I see no problem with ads on the forum I can't say the same about email blasts. While certainly not sent excessively by OGR, is there nevertheless a way to opt out of receiving them while still retaining membership on this forum?
Btw, it's any and all email blasts I dislike, not just those from OGR sponsors.
Well....what can I say after everything I said above.... If the recent email blasts annoy you, all you have to do is to scroll to the bottom and click on "unsubscribe". When you do that, keep in mind you are completely off of our list for any and all emails in the future....including reminders we send about upcoming subscription renewals, specials, etc. It up to you....
Thank you Alan for your reply.
Btw, I would suggest to everyone who buys from forum sponsors that (if they don't already do it), when they make their purchases that they as I do - mention to those dealers during the ordering that they're buying from them because they are sponsors of this forum.
Tinplate Art posted:ALAN: THANK YOU for that perspective on the economic aspects of the magazine and the forum! I understand and I stand corrected!
You are welcome....by the way, your subscription is not active....but I can help with that..
OOPS! My wife, who usually handles my renewals, has been ill and is awaiting a liver transplant, so I believe this was an oversight that will be shortly corrected!
Well said, Alan and Rich........and, thank you.
Peter
I know there has been 3 pages of responses already. But I have to be honest I haven't seen that many ads or sponsor e mails. Just a few. People need to understand that a business needs to be able to sustain itself. The business you work for HAS TO DO IT TO PAY YOU!!!!!!! NICK
Without enough ads there is no OGR forum. Free forums need quite a few more ads to continue.
rockstars1989 posted:I know there has been 3 pages of responses already. But I have to be honest I haven't seen that many ads or sponsor e mails. Just a few. People need to understand that a business needs to be able to sustain itself. The business you work for HAS TO DO IT TO PAY YOU!!!!!!! NICK
The "event" occurred about a day ago. There were a fair amount of announcements consisting of 3-4 subject lines crowding out regular subjects it the recent posts sidebar. IMO, it began to feel like those multiple ambulance chaser commercials on TV.
I know the advertisers here pay the freight, but it was getting a little out of hand. We seem to be back to our regularly schedule forum now.
I suspect it was also due to a "perfect storm" of cabin fever, some multiple new product announcements and one somewhat unpopular product (to some folks) announcement.
Rusty
We admittedly don't advertise enough on the forum but since our brick and mortar store is closed, we will certainly take the opportunity now.
We are shipping web site orders same-day or next-day they are placed.
OGR FORUM sponsors obviously believe advertising works as a form of business-related "show and tell." However, some Forum readers stated, "It's easy to skip over the ads." If some advertisers take note of that "marketing trend" and re-evaluate their ad presence, there would be some domino effects. Fewer Forum ads might mean: less awareness among hobbyists of new products and deals, less hobby news and info, and possible consideration of a fee for Forum readers as an accommodation to a financial reality check.
Mike Mottler LCCA 12394
The forum is free to all that wish to view'.. Other forums ask for donations. I think their needs to be a solution for this. Non subscribers to the magazine or the digital , are enjoying the free ride, And there is always more guests/visitors than members at any given time. We're lucky to have the sponsors carrying the load. Another problem for sponsors, as time goes by and layouts are completed, the demand for items decrease. Not for all, but for many. They need new hobbyists to pick up the slack... SO lets appreciate the sponsors while we have them. Or everyone will have to contribute more to keep enjoying what we have'....
An additional fee on top of the magazine/digital , and non subscribers may be the solution popular or not'...
One of the reasons I subscribe to the magazine is because it is related to the forum - in fact, it is the only print magazine I subscribe to.
Quarter Gauger 48 posted:The forum is free to all that wish to view'.. Other forums ask for donations. I think their needs to be a solution for this. Non subscribers to the magazine or the digital , are enjoying the free ride, And there is always more guests/visitors than members at any given time. We're lucky to have the sponsors carrying the load. Another problem for sponsors, as time goes by and layouts are completed, the demand for items decrease. Not for all, but for many. They need new hobbyists to pick up the slack... SO lets appreciate the sponsors while we have them. Or everyone will have to contribute more to keep enjoying what we have'....
An additional fee on top of the magazine/digital , and non subscribers may be the solution popular or not'...
This is a good analysis of the situation and food for rational thought. Thank you.
Alan, well said response to the comment on advertisers on the forum. Your explanation of the costs to run our forum was informative, and in my opinion, right on the money! I certainly have enjoyed the forum over the course of a decade, along with receiving a print copy of the magazine during the majority of that time period. In this day and age when a local newspaper with a hand full of pages is about ten dollars a week in our area, it seems to me the magazine at its present price for twelve issues is a bargain. The very low cost of the magazine to subscribers tells me the advertisers are picking up a good part of the tab. The fact the forum rides along in the sidecar to the magazine for no additional expense to subscribers is a bonus to me.
I've used the advertising poster board at the top of the forum pages numerous times to locate vendors, while realizing if advertisers are shown on the board, they are most likely both a legitimate and reliable vendor. Many forum members have enjoyed positive experiences with these vendors. Thanks for all your efforts, Alan
Ads are a part of a business. But the trick is to find that proper balance that invites without grating on people's nerves.
Like any other "FREE" website we visit, I'm guessing you see a bazillion ads, pop up or otherwise. As Alan points out at least here there only "OUR" hobby related and we should consider that a bonus.
I currently hold a subscription with You Tube (subscribe in this case means what I consider a small monthly fee) and do so freely. I am able to watch a lot of video content in regards to our hobby and various other subjects that interest me. This subscription allows me to watch without any advertising which really annoys me in this case and I really appreciate that. I don't know if this forum will always be fee "FREE", but if not, I sure won't have any problem paying I reasonable fee to have it.
So count our blessings that "ALL" the content on this "FREE FORUM" is only related to our hobby. 
Stay safe
The advertisers have been good to me and I have no problem with their advertising.If it doesn’t interest me I just scroll past it
You could make ads optional for digital subscribers. Also the email unsubscribe could be delineated to have a few options instead of all or nothing.
Personally the ads keep me informed of what new products are available. Plus we’re all in this together. The number of dealers has dropped significantly so we need to support the ones that are left.
I am a digital subscriber to the magazine. I look forward to the issues as well as going back to previous issues. I don’t have any problems with advertisements on the forum either.
I'm with Steve, I like to see what sponsors have for sale even though most won't fit my needs. Sometimes something new hits me that it would be perfect for me. Something else would be perfect for the next guy. Keep advertising! I can delete anything I'm not interested in.
I welcome the ads from our sponsors. I have received great products and services every time I've made purchases from them. Arnold
As Alan has said and as everyone here knows these forums have several purposes. One is to educate, share ideas and show how we have fun with our trains; the other is to facilitate revenue to either OGRR and/or the sponsors and/or OGRR advertisers because part of this is a business.
I'm fine and we ALL should be fine with both purposes even if we favor one purpose over the other.
As someone once said "GET OVER IT!".
I don't have a problem with them, actually bought from 2 sponsors.
I figure the sponsors pay to be here, I don’t, so post away.
Besides, I actually enjoy reading the ads and specials.
Advertising anywhere should strike a balance of ads and content...a challenging job for those who run media.
Is this horse dead yet? We've certainly beat it enough!
gunrunnerjohn posted:Is this horse dead yet? We've certainly beat it enough!
Speaking of horses...You can't beat these horses! We have this beautiful (K-Line By Lionel) set in stock. They are ready to be painted and/or customized for your O scale diorama.
I have to somewhat agree with Gunrunner - we have certainly beat this horse to within an inch of it’s life. But I’d like to make a prediction. When the pandemic passes and we get to whatever the new “normal” looks like, the advertising horse will be resuscitated and it will go something like this... We’ve lost another one - (fill in the name of your favorite hobby/train store) didn’t survive the great shutdown of 2020 
As we all know, the whole industry is already on a very thin margin, so the shutdown may just be the final straw. I think we have to appreciate the sponsors as best we can while we’ve got them. So advertise away!!!
I used to advocate charging a very modest fee--perhaps $1 a month, even if on a strictly voluntary basis--to help support this Forum and the magazine, but gave up on that when it became obvious that many people who will readily shell out $500, or even $1,000 or more, for yet another locomotive without even batting an eye, would go absolutely nuts over just the suggestion of paying anything for something they were already getting for free. I guess that's just the society we live in today, so we rely on the fine folks in our industry to help keep this thing going. Still, if anyone might care to contribute to the cause on a strictly voluntary basis at some point, the Mountain Home, Arkansas, address for Alan and LaKeeta Arnold is always listed in the information box that follows my column in every issue. Don't send any money to me though, 'cause I might use it for one of the several engines I currently have on preorder from a couple of our advertisers. 
JR Junction Train & Hobby posted:
Speaking of horses...You can't beat these horses! We have this beautiful (K-Line By Lionel) set in stock. They are ready to be painted and/or customized for your O scale diorama.
I see what you did there!
