again, with the smoke, asking for help

Forrest;

Are you anywhere near the Tampa-Fort Myers area?

Rod

Not really.  Winter park, just NE of Orlando. 

I checked on Google Earth, and I see what you mean. About 3 hours away I would guess.

If it was closer I would be happy to look at them for you, but........

the smoke units them self are not that hard to wrok on, it's that on the diesels everything is very tight.

if Lionel is fixing them for free have them send you a shipping label. 

might try an email to mike reagan

These are not really hard I have the f3s they can't be much different ..6 screws on them 2 on the nose 4 on the back .2 In front of the truck 2 behind the truck. Then there's a plug located in the front of the nose .. Them the shell is free the smoke unit is chassis mounted with a bracket .. The hardest part is getting the smoke unit funnel lined up with the shell on assembly ..The smoke unit removes from the bracket and one plug..I hope this helps  .. The b units are even easier just the 6 screws and the Body is free.. 

It doesn't appear that the "smoke units" are an assembled part. There is the fan, resistor, batting and something else, all separately identified.  Not eager to fool with the resistor. 

As i noted, these are not leaving the premises again. 

You need to grab the fan impeller with a pair of needle-nose pliers and pull straight off. Under the impeller, you'll see two tiny screws, they hold the motor on.

thanks, john.  oh boy, more tiny screws.

Sorry  for using your thread Forrest but the topic is really the same.

When you get the cab 3 light flash what should I check before knowing it must go back to Lionel?  Thanks.

Hate to see folks have smoke problems. I have a VL Hudson, back to Lionel 5 times for smoke problems, also have a Legacy GP 38, smoked great for a few days then stopped. Decided not to worry about smoke and enjoy the trains, so I fired them up, ran about 5-10 minutes and guess what?  Both engines started smoking, no ideal why they both started smoking. I must have added too much fluid and it had to drain or burn off but the last time I ran the trains 3-4 days all were smoking, don't know about this afternoon

Brent

This is why I don't normally do the kind of stuff.  Disassembling smoke unit and undoing little screws like made. Difficult.  Got lost in the process of getting screws to move wotouut paying much attention. UN did the screws that hold the resistor in place. No problem to hook back up but don't know if resistor has to go one way or the other.  Does it matter?

No on the resistor. Either way.  G

Thanks G

I sure wish Lionel so.d assembled smoke units. 

I think you can buy complete smoke units.

Here's a sampling of smoke units available on the Lionel site.  There are others that are indeed listed as unavailable.

I've worked on several of the smoke units on my F3 and F7 locomotives, and the F unit is one of the easiest to service. There is plenty of room inside the shell, and I've found that the easiest way to work on the unit is to remove it completely, including the bracket and then dis-assemble it further on the bench.

When replacing the fan motor, please be careful not to over-tighten the motor screws, as doing so could easily damage either the plastic casing, or the screws themselves. Also, be careful to support the motor when pushing the impeller back on. 

Depending what you want, they do sell smoke units. We have units in stock and sell at 15% below list price and less shipping.

Bill

this was the response when i asked about assembled smoke units for the legacy F7

"We do not have complete smoke units.  "

bill, i will give you a shout later today.

Another option is to have someone rebuild the existing smoke unit for you.

sure, gunrunnerjohn, but who would that be?  

Lots of folks here can rebuild a smoke unit, including me.   Alex is the smoke king, I'm sure he could handle it, maybe it would shoot fire when he sent it back.

any ideas?   

guess i am faced with hooking it up and seeing if it works.  yuck.

The fans should normally turn Clockwise so you can test with a small battery to see which motor terminal is positive.  You can than measure the voltage out of the fan motor connector to determine which wire is positive.  (or trace the electronics to see which terminal comes off the small VR on the PCB).

If you need some one to rebuild it I can.  E-mails in my profile.  G

Send me the smoke unit and I'll get it put back together for you.

John,

Looking at the seven different varieties of Lionel SMUs you picture, and bearing in mind the similar variety of problems I've had with mine, I wonder if the circuits on the PCBs only rectify current being fed to the heater or fan or do they control any of the features of the unit, such as when the smoke volume increases? Sorry if this is a dumb question but I have difficulty understanding why Lionel use so many different units whereas MTH seem to have only a couple of basic types.

The intelligent units have more than a rectifier on them, they're actually part of the overall smoke control.  The smoke regulator board handles the smoke element, I believe the logic on the smoke unit itself is to handle the fan control, as it receives the serial data.  The smoke resistor on the "smart" runs right to the connector.

Great, glad you got it all working again.

You probably worked this out already but for future reference you don't need to remove the two screws that hold the resistor/heating element to disassemble the smoke unit. The smaller screws at or near the corners hold the board to the wicking bowl (and in most units the fan enclosure). I mention this because hard experience has taught me that replacing or re-fixing the resistor is just about the hardest part of re-assembling these units. I have no idea how they put them on at the factory!

Iis amazes me how much trouble smoke units cause all of us.  It is my single biggest problem area.

I like lots of smoke. Just the maintainacne of changing the charred wicks is time consuming.

Also the judgement call when it's not smoking correctly...do I have too much or too little fluid in the unit.  Usually it's too little.  I wish I could see inside there to get a look without taking it apart.