Air operated bells?

Norton posted:

I am curious, when did air actuated bells on steam engines first get implemented? I am detailing some USRA Mikados and am pretty sure they all came delivered with rope pulls but many later had the bells upgraded.

Even after the air operated actuator was applied on swinging bells, in many cases the rope-pull was still there, so as to start the bell in the event the actuator stuck.

This is a general question about the bells but as I am doing New York Central, anyone with specific information about their engines would be appreciated as well.

Pete

Kelly Anderson posted:

The 1906 Locomotive Cyclopedia shows three different brands of bell ringers, all of the swinging type, mounted on the bell frame, and would have bell a rope to the cab.

So, are the bell ringers actuated by air and also have rope as Hot indicated? 

I didn't realize air actuation went back that far. 

Pete

To further narrow down the answer to Norton's question, I reviewed a few of George Abdill's books (Abdill published a series of books in the early 1960s which featured hundreds, if not thousands, of train photos from railroading's earliest years up through the turn of the last century).

The earliest photo where I could positively identify an air ringer was a Baldwin builder's photo dated September 1895.

I appreciate all the info. 

Pete

This is a Baldwin bell from AT&SF 2-8-2 4066, built in 1924. If NYC used Baldwins, it could have looked like this one. This bell still has a working Viloco ringer installed

Great picture. This pretty much illustrates what has been said here, that they could be operated either way. Not sure how many Baldwin built engines were on the the NYC but the USRA types were built by all of the big three and NYC may have gotten some of those. 

Pete

I remember seeing a video of a bell that went in a constant circle not back and forth.

clem k posted:

I remember seeing a video of a bell that went in a constant circle not back and forth.

Yes, that sometimes occurred on front mounted over-hanging bells, due to the wind. Quite a number of railroads added small wind wing/deflectors in order to prevent the bell from doing that. Obviously the bell is/was NOT designed to do that, as the clapper then is stuck inside in one position and thus doesn't ring at all.

Bells would get into a roll, and spin 360° in their cradles or front hangers. Like Jack said, there was no sound when this happened, because everything swung continuously, ringer included, not back and forth. To overcome this, some railroads added a piece of flat iron above the yoke, with a hole in the center, that fit on top of the yoke bore or washer, and was held down by the ringer nut. It was long enough to strike both sides of the yoke, limiting the swing. They would heat the bar about 6" out from the bolt hole, and give it a 45° twist so that the flat part at each end would strike each side of the cradle, and spring it back the other direction.  The 4066 bell in the photo shows a slight wear pattern on both sides of the yoke where a limiting bar has been striking it over the years. Whether top mounted, or front mounted, they would at times try to do a 360.  I suppose wind could be a factor, but these bells are very heavy, and even though they rotate in greased bronze bushings, it would take a lot of wind to make them roll a complete turn.

Sometimes, it's a matter of opening up the ringer valve too much or too quickly.  One you realize the bell's not ringing, you close the valve and reopen it slowly.

Rusty

The video that I saw, the bell was circling slowly and steady, and ringing once every revolution. It would have to circle pretty fast to keep the clapper it one place through centrifugal force. Of course you know I'll never find that video again. Dubbing in the sound ?    

On PRR air ringer bells the bell was stationary and the clapper was driven by a piston inside the bell.  An arm was welded to the yoke the bell was fastened to and in the event the air ringer failed the crew could attach a pull cord to manually swing the bell.  I have a PRR bell which saw service on an l1s and an an H9s. The piston is in good shape but the air line was snapped off when the bell was salvaged.  PRR practice was to stamp the engine number to bell was assigned to on the upper surface of the bell.  I've seen PRR bells with more than three different engine numbers on it.