Al Qaeda train-bombing plot thwarted.

I was just thinking about this story and what impact it may have on rail fans. It may become difficult soon. The railroad police will be busy checking credentials and chasing folks away.

Moonman, I was thinking the same thing.

It has been "difficult" for railfans for more than ten years now. BNSF Railway even has a "Citizens for Rail Security" program which railfans can sign up for, and receive an ID card from BNSF.

I agree with Hot Water.  I've had people call the police to report my suspicious trackside activities numerous times.  Fortunately, in every instance the police have been very courteous and after a quick check have wished me good hunting.  What I can't get over is the ignorance of the people doing the reporting.  I have a large telephoto lens which I tripod mount and more than one policeman has told me the report said I was standing trackside with a shoulder mounted bazooka.

You have been pretty lucky. Early on, after September 11, 2001, many, many members of law enforcement quickly assumed ANYONE even remotely "near the railroad" or even just standing on a station platform, was a member of al-qaeda (sp)! Transit Police in Chicago, Philadelphia, New York, etc. also had some real issues with people's civil liberties, and made many a news paper headline over their mis-treatment of railfans. 

What I thought was neat is that an Imam (Muslum Minister) became suspicious of their activities and reported them to the authorities! His tip lead to their arrest.

 

As one who has been harassed by police and threatened with arrest if I did not give my social security number, I do understand the concerns. BUT: I keep a copy of the "Your Rights" Ap on my I phone, stay legal, don't tresspass, and am courteous.  I have no intention of giving up my legal, enjoyable hobby.

 

My advice if you are harassed: get the officer's name and badge number and afterwards complain. When I did that, calmly and reasonably, I received an apology includng a personal phone call at home.

 

By the way, as one who does work for SSA: NEVER give your Social Security Number.

 

And, by all means, never get in a P*****g contest with a skunk.

Does anybody really think a guy out there with an elephant sized zoom lens is one who is going to blow something up?  TOO OUT IN THE OPEN.  Stay off the ROW, be friendly, and there will be fewer issues!

 

And if you see something, SAY SOMETHING!

I can speak from experience regarding this matter. Several years ago, I was detained on two separate occasions  three days apart while videotaping in New Jersey. The first incident occured at Union on the Lehigh Line and the second was along the North Jersey Coast Line. I was acting responsibly on public property both times. The officers were almost apologetic as they all knew railfans but had to follow through on the process because they got calls about me. The second incident also involved a follow up call from a detective who wanted to verify some of the information I had provided to the officers during the trackside check. I asked him if I should just stop doing this and he told me I wasn't doing anything illegal but warned me I needed to be prepared to go through this on a regular basis.

 

The upshot of the whole situation is I decided the last thing I need to be hassled about in my life is my hobby so decided it wasn't worth the aggravation and I haven't taken the camera out since. Besides, I've found the book publishers and video producers are more than satisfying my needs for photographic material to add to my collection.

 

Bob   

You're being rational Dominic...not a good thing...

Back in 2002 or 2003 when the Chicago area METRA Police were truly out of control, a good fried of mine took his son, about 6, to the big Naperville passenger station, on the CB&Q/BN/BNSF three track main line. Since there were LOTS of trains, between METRA, Amtrak, and freights, there was LOTS to see and video. It didn't take long for the "plain clothes" METRA cop to confront him, and promptly questioned him AND his son.

 

Some 3 or 4 weeks later, when he and his son went back to the Naperville Depot, He quickly spotted the same "plain clothes" METRA cop, sitting way down the platform "reading" a newspaper. Rich watched him for awhile, and noted that he never actually turned any pages of the newspaper. He went inside the depot and used the pay-phone to call an anonymous tip into the Naperville Police, and reported a "suspicious looking" man, who was NOT very well dressed, and who APPEARED to be watching children or younger adults under the guise of "reading a newspaper". He suggested that the Police watch the man for awhile, and they'll see that he REALLY isn't "reading" the newspaper.

 

Naturally, it didn't take long for the local police to arrive, and after a bit of watching, they confronted the METRA cop. My buddy said it was pretty funny to watch as the shabbily dressed METRA cop tried to identify himself to the uniformed officers. Talk about turning the tables on someone!

I enjoy trackside train watching but I can abide by over zealous "authorities" as whether right or wrong, I would rather have them be alert rather than idly looking the other way, especially when you consider any potential loss of life from a terrorist. Look at the crazed lunatics as far as just how normal they do look and ask yourself, would you warn off someone that looks "normal"? Especially since we now have homegrown terrorists in a garden variety, from mass murderers to zealots. There's enough stuff on line to satisfy my eyes. It does not take.. simply a bazooka to reek havoc. The French underground uses this to their advantage, etc in WW2.

Plenty of unsolved acts of railroad sabotage here in the U.S...CLICK HERE

 

 

Bruce

 

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Please learn how to make LINKS instead of just posting huge URL's here. Those long URL's destroy the page formatting for some of our members. I just fixed this one.

I rarely railfan anymore, after being hassled on two separate occasions. Like Bob above, I decided it's just not worth it.

Hot Water- I like your friend's idea!

I've been riding METRA and its predecessors for decades, and I have read stories about its "over-zealous" police force. I haven't "tested" the system, however, as the bulk of my METRA trackside photography was done prior to 9/11/01.

 

When BNSF set up the program that Jack (Hot Water) mentioned, I joined, and I keep the card in the backpack I keep my cameras in. I haven't had to use it. I applaud BNSF for setting up the program, however, in that I have always thought that "responsible" railfans could be used to assist the police in keeping an eye on the road. Railfans often know what looks "right" and what does not, as opposed to members of the general public.

 

I hope that the authorities continue to ferret out railroad terrorism prior to a planned event. You only have to look at Madrid and London to see the terrible possibilities. When I'm at the local station waiting for a METRA dinky to take us all downtown, I look  at all the backpacks, satchels, computer cases, etc. and wonder if the security people aren't up all night, every night, having nightmares.

There is a Union Pacific rail yard and CalTrain station about 5 minutes from my house out here in Brisbane, CA.  The area is not patrolled by UP Police, but rather by The Transit Division of the County Sheriff's Office.  Luckily, I have never had any problem railfanning there.  They are good and fair cops.  Matt

boin106 brings up a good point about the railroad police. Those poor guys have gone through MAJOR "cultural changes" since September 11, 2001. It has taken the railroad police departments many years to recognize railfans, interested members of the public, and potential criminals. Take all THAT responsibility and now throw in steam excursions, as UP, NS and occasionally BNSF has done, and you really create a nightmare environment for the railroad police. We all should really feel for those folks, as we all try to enjoy our hobby.

More on the subject to terrorist threats to mass transit:

 

http://www.foxnews.com/politic...urity-at-land-based/

Since my railfanning is confined to steam, usually, in places like Durango, the Royal

Gorge, Cass, and Strasburg, with high tourist visitation, and, often around abandoned structures along railroads, such as stations, elevators, etc., I have had none of that hassle experience,

I think it is different dealing with freight railroads ie:CSX and passenger ie: Metro North or LIRR. A Iona Island along the West Shore Line on any weekend there are numerous railfans taking pictures. I have seen Park Police come in and drive around for a minute and drive off with a wave. But, I was questioned at the Mineola train station by LIRR police. They were polite, asked me for ID which I produced. They saw my ID and badge that I was a fireman and no problems. They stated I was making the guys in the Nassau tower nervous. They thought I was going to throw myself in front of a train. I have heard and read that NJ Transit police are brutal, though!

In the instances which I mentioned above, my encounters involved local police departments: Union and Red Bank. Again, the officers were very pleasant and knew I was a railfan right from the get-go but had to follow the prescribed process in response to the calls. I must admit the follow up call from the detective was a bit disconcerting. Again, he was very polite but explained to me that they were obliged to follow up to the maximum degree possible. 

 

NJ Transit had a reputation for being a bit more demanding than other carriers in terms of photography even before September 11th. During the late 90s, I spent many hours along the Newark City Subway taping the PCC cars as moderniztion of the system and retirement of the cars was becoming more of a reality. During one of my initial outings, I was approached by NJT officers who asked me if I had a permit to take pictures. I had never heard of such a thing in my many years of picture taking. They told me in order to photograph in the subway I needed a permit. I called NJT offices the next day and was placed in contact with some great folks in public affairs. It was really more of a formality more than anything else. As long as I called to let them know I was coming , they had no problem with me being there. Of the many, many times I called, I was asked not to come only once due to some construction work. Over a period of a few years, I ended up with a lot of great tape of the PCCs. 

 

In support of what was stated above, I believe there is more sensitivity to this situation on the part of the passenger carriers.

 

Bob