Alco RS cab direction?

It was the railroad's decision as to whether long or short hood was front on the RS's and the control stand location in the cab reflected that.  The same went for GP7/9/18's.  Sometimes, they were equipped with dual control stands for ease of operation in either direction, but one end would still be designated as "front."

Rusty

On the first-generation Alco-GE RS-series (RS1-2-3, RSD4-5, and RSC2-3), the long hood was almost always set up as the front.

Santa Fe marched to a different drum, and specified the short hood as the front of its fleet of RSD4's and RSD5's.  Santa Fe had only one RS2, a 1600 horsepower version built early in 1950, and which was originally an Alco-GE demonstrator equipped with dual controls, with the long hood marked as the front.  Santa Fe acquired it later in 1950 with the original setup.  Sometime later in the 1950's, Santa Fe officially changed the front to the short hood end, and repainted the marking.  It was mostly used on the Phoenix to Cadiz, CA passenger train, sometimes being wyed at Cadiz, and at other times simply running around its train and returning long hood forward.  Santa Fe's RS1's were purchased to be switch engines equipped with steam generators, for handling passenger equipment at Chicago, Los Angeles and San Diego, and their long hood was the designated front end.  They were never used in road service except in a very few emergencies.

On later, notched-nose, Alco RS11, RSD7 and RSD15, the original RS11 demonstrators were set up for the long hood to be the front, but production units ordered by railroads were set up as ordered.  PRR, N&W, and NYC specified long hood as the front.  Southern Pacific; Santa Fe; Northern Pacific; Missouri Pacific; Nickel Plate; Toledo, Peoria & Western, and Bessemer & Lake Erie specified short hood as the front.

After 1959 the low short hood became standard, and all the subsequently-built first generation notched-nose RS units with low short hoods were obviously set up for short hood forward operation.  N&W held out for the long nose front, even ordering some EMD and GE second-generation locomotives with low nose, single control stand, and long hood forward operation.

Number 90 posted:

On the first-generation Alco-GE RS-series (RS1-2-3, RSD4-5, and RSC2-3), the long hood was almost always set up as the front.

Santa Fe marched to a different drum, and specified the short hood as the front of its fleet of RSD4's and RSD5's.  Santa Fe had only one RS2, a 1600 horsepower version built early in 1950, and which was originally an Alco-GE demonstrator equipped with dual controls, with the long hood marked as the front.  Santa Fe acquired it later in 1950 with the original setup.  Sometime later in the 1950's, Santa Fe officially changed the front to the short hood end, and repainted the marking.  It was mostly used on the Phoenix to Cadiz, CA passenger train, sometimes being wyed at Cadiz, and at other times simply running around its train and returning long hood forward.Santa Fe's RS1's were purchased to be switch engines equipped with steam generators, for handling passenger equipment at Chicago, Los Angeles and San Diego, and their long hood was the designated front end.  They were never used in road service except in a very few emergencies.

On later, notched-nose, Alco RS11, RSD7 and RSD15, the original RS11 demonstrators were set up for the long hood to be the front, but production units ordered by railroads were set up as ordered.  PRR, N&W, and NYC specified long hood as the front.  Southern Pacific; Santa Fe; Northern Pacific; Missouri Pacific; Nickel Plate; Toledo, Peoria & Western, and Bessemer & Lake Erie specified short hood as the front.

After 1959 the low short hood became standard, and all the remaining first generation notched-nose RS units with low short hoods were obviously set up for short hood forward operation.  N&W held out for the long nose front, even ordering some EMD and GE second-generation locomotives with low nose, single control stand, and long hood forward operation.

Thank you so much for the explanation. I guess, seeing as how it was railroad's choice... there's no un-prototypical way to run them.

some of it had to do with union agreements , coming out of the steam era crews wanted the long hood first for safety and had it added into their  agreements. southern railway held out the longest into the modern age.

Important (I think) to note that diesel engines have always been required to have an "F" stencil indicating which end the railroad considers the front. Usually it's near the front steps on a GP or similar engine. It's important for switching; if you tell the engineer to back-up, you have to be sure to know which end is the front and which is the rear.

Which end was actually the front, and how the cab was set up, was up to the railroad. Northern Pacific's RS-3s and GP-7s were both set to run short-hood first, while neighbor Great Northern ran RS-3s and GP-7s long-hood forward, as did New York Central and Canadian National. Some mixed it up, ran RS-3s long-hood forward but GP-7s short-hood forward.

wjstix posted:

Important (I think) to note that diesel engines have always been required to have an "F" stencil indicating which end the railroad considers the front. Usually it's near the front steps on a GP or similar engine. It's important for switching; if you tell the engineer to back-up, you have to be sure to know which end is the front and which is the rear. . .

. . . as well as identifying the appliances, wheels, and axles from designated front toward the rear by number and, in the case of wheels, side.

Real railroad examples:

• There was a 2-inch crack in the L3 wheel of diesel unit 2123.
• The lower R1 gear case section of Diesel Unit 2099 was damaged after striking an object between the rails, while the locomotive was moving at approximately 50 MPH near M.P. 369.
• Upon arrival at Caprock Diesel Facility, the R1 roller bearing cap of unit 5617 was missing and there were signs that it had been struck by an unknown object while the locomotive was moving.
• The Numbers 1 and 4 traction motors  of unit 8022 had been cut out en route due to repeated tripping of the ground relay.
• The front headlight cover glass of diesel unit 2816 was cracked due to striking an owl at 2:10 a.m., at M.P. 141.
• The rear coupler knuckle of diesel unit 2118 broke and was replaced en route by the crew at M.P. 579.  The knuckle was retrieved from the right of way, was examined and was found to have 75% old break.
• During classified repairs, the Numbers 2 and 6 axles and wheel sets of diesel unit 2131 were replaced.
• The Number 4 axle of unit 32B locked, sliding the L&R4 wheels for several miles at high speed and building a false flange, which derailed the train on the west switch of Orwood.

Rick Rubino posted:

some of it had to do with union agreements , coming out of the steam era crews wanted the long hood first for safety and had it added into their  agreements. southern railway held out the longest into the modern age.

 

Rick:

With the exception of their RS units; Southern’s first few groups of hood units were set up as short hood forward.  Southern GP9’s through I believe their SD24’s were all short hood forward when delivered.  Jack Wheelihan can confirm if he sees this but; I think Southern’s first hood units delivered as long hood forward were the GP30’s.

Curt

I don't know which direction engines were to operate was ever put into a formal union contract, or that any railroad ever had a union contract that required it to buy engines 'long hood forward'. About the only thing somewhat like that is that supposedly one reason the CB&Q never bought RDCs was because there had been one (or more?) fatal accidents in the 1930's-40's involving the early 'shovelnose' Zephyrs, and the railroad had agreed to the employee's request to never buy any more engines that didn't have some sort of 'nose' in front to provide protection in case of a crash. I don't know that it was every part of a formal union contract though.

wjstix posted:

I don't know which direction engines were to operate was ever put into a formal union contract, or that any railroad ever had a union contract that required it to buy engines 'long hood forward'. 

Probably correct.  Union contracts are National (rates of pay, paid holidays, scope of representation, etc.) or Carrier (e.g., AT&SF Coast Lines, AT&SF Eastern & Western Lines) covering railroad specific matters such as Trainman passenger uniforms, crew district boundaries, seniority rights, etc.

Matters such as locomotive seats water coolers, toilets, and - possibly - hood unit orientation, would be covered, if even agreed to, in Side Letters, not contracts.

Most likely all of the hood unit preferences were internal Mechanical Department decisions.  In the 1950's there was no sentiment toward allowing union input on any locomotive cab matters.