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All Aboard Florida - Siemens Train Release

N naveenrajanOGR Forum Member

At the biennial Innotrans 2014 train expo in Berlin, Germany that showcases innovative train technologies / products, from all around the world, Siemens booth had a scale model of the Charger diesel-electric locomotive & the Viaggio Comfort USA passenger cars that were recently selected for the All Aboard Florida passenger train service. Here are some photos of the locomotive & the passenger cars that I found on Flickr.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/...et-72157647461655118

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/...et-72157647461655118

 

The Viaggio passenger cars are a successful design used on the high-speed Railjet trains on the Austrian Federal Railways & more recently for the Czech State Railways. The impressive Red & black livery for the Austrian trains was designed by Spirit Design who won the prestigious 2009 Red Dot design award for their design of these cars.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/mdanielka/14016348376/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/nikmorris/9725174370/

 

These are just my opinion.

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

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FF Fec fanOGR Forum Member

Thanks for posting the links! Really nice looking engines and cars. I wonder what paint scheme AAF is going to use. On a side note, the FRA published their draft Environmental impact statement this week. Public hearings will be held over the next 60 days. There were some things that the FRA wants AAF to do to mitigate noise, traffic iconveinence,etc.  I have to download it (all 500+ pages) and really go over it.

N naveenrajanOGR Forum Member

Innotrans is held every 2 years around Sept 20. In 2010 Bombardier exhibited the dual NJ Transit ALP45DP that has a catenary that is used in electrified routes & 2 Caterpillar 4-stroke diesel engines to allow the train to run on non-electrified routes without having to change locomotives. ALP45DP was & is still built at the Bombardier facility in Kassel, Germany & exported to the US, I guess that NJ Transit does not require federal assistance & can purchase foreign locomotives. I read on some European forum around 2010 that ALP45DP posed some challenges to get it to Innotrans since the locomotive is built to the larger US loading gauge, has a higher axle load than a typical European locomotive & a coupler not common in mainland Europe.

But the railroads that bought the Siemens Charger seem to rely on taxpayer / government funding & so have to meet the Buy-America requirements that mandate that most of the locomotive be built & assembled in the US. So it might not make sense for Siemens to transport a complete locomotive to Berlin just for Innotrans.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/altaria01669/5106646243

These are just my opinion,

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

FF Fec fanOGR Forum Member

One of our local congressmen has come out against the AAF project. he claims that what will happen is the exact opposite of all of the press releases and the FRA draft report claims. The kicker is that he is, of course up for reelection, and that his opponent is also against the project. Where this will get either of them I don't know.

Gary GravesGary GravesOGR Forum Member
Originally Posted by Fec fan:

One of our local congressmen has come out against the AAF project. he claims that what will happen is the exact opposite of all of the press releases and the FRA draft report claims. The kicker is that he is, of course up for reelection, and that his opponent is also against the project. Where this will get either of them I don't know.

The only legitimate objections people have to this project that I can see are the people who live near the crossings between West Palm and Orlando - they have to put up with the high speed crossings many times each day and don't have access to ride the train unless they drive down to WPB or up to Orlando. Add more stops and it loses the appeal of express service. 

 

I am excited to see this develop and hope to obtain a model of this train for a future layout. This will be done before Texas' or California's HSR efforts are complete. 

P phillyreadingOGR Forum Member

In case nobody saw the article in the Palm Beach Post(a West Palm Beach newspaper) about a week ago, All Aboard Florida is now going to sell bonds instead of seeking federal money from the US Government.

So any politician will have to fight extra hard and may have to go to court to stop All Aboard Florida now that private money is going to be used for the new project. That is good news for All Aboard Florida.

 

The new Siemens passenger cars look very nice. Will they have a matching engine?

 

Florida needs to get with the times and have some real rail service. Our roads are way over crowded and All Aboard Florida offers a way to take traffic off a lot of roads here in Florida; like the FL Turnpike and I-95.

 

For people opposed to the rail service you need to get into the 21st century and build more hospitals(Jupiter FL opposition) and provide bus service to and from the marina(Martin County opposition).

 

Amtrak takes a long time to get any where in Florida as it goes out west and then back north from West Palm Beach to Jacksonville, approximate time to Jacksonville from West Palm Beach is 6 to 6 and a half hours. Also Amtrak only has two runs each morning from Miami Fl up to West Palm Beach to Jacksonville. In the afternoon there are two trains that come down to Miami FL from the northeast, park overnight at Miami and then return and go up north.

 

Lee Fritz

Last edited by phillyreading
P phillyreadingOGR Forum Member
Originally Posted by Fec fan:

One of our local congressmen has come out against the AAF project. he claims that what will happen is the exact opposite of all of the press releases and the FRA draft report claims. The kicker is that he is, of course up for reelection, and that his opponent is also against the project. Where this will get either of them I don't know.

Do mean mister P. Murphy?

His adds are very ugly on the subject of All Aboard Florida.

 

Florida needs more transportation!!

 

Lee Fritz

P phillyreadingOGR Forum Member

This might be a little off subject but it pertains to FEC. One day I was waiting to transport somebody who lived about a block & half from one of the cement plants in Stuart FL off of A1A, the road that runs from Monterrey Rd. down past Kanner Hwy. or Colorado a block east of US 1. The noise from the freight cars being coupled together sounded like a jack hammer drilling away, and they must have coupled at least 11 cars together.

So the noise from All Aboard Florida is not the real issue in my opinion, maybe some inconvenience at the crossings. 

Another thing about Stuart FL is that there is a newer bridge over the railroad crossing and the old section of US 1, so there will not be any major traffic tie-ups on the main roads. 

This is my two cents about the issue of All Aboard Florida high speed rail.

 

Lee Fritz

Last edited by phillyreading
N naveenrajanOGR Forum Member

I was backing up my PC & came across an old pdf file containing some renderings of the All Aboard Florida passenger train images. The design was from RailPlan the famous industrial design consultancy firm who had designed the interior & exterior of many contemporary passenger trains in the US.

This file was from a few years ago when they were still considering resurrecting some old Santa Fe Hi-Level cars & EMD F59PHi for this service. Even though they are going with Siemens Charger locomotives & the Viaggio single-level passenger cars, I thought I would show you the paint scheme that they were considering.

These are just my opinion,

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

 

Originally Posted by Fec fan:

Thanks for posting the links! Really nice looking engines and cars. I wonder what paint scheme AAF is going to use. On a side note, the FRA published their draft Environmental impact statement this week. Public hearings will be held over the next 60 days. There were some things that the FRA wants AAF to do to mitigate noise, traffic iconveinence,etc.  I have to download it (all 500+ pages) and really go over it.

 

Corridor-Capital-Capabilities-All-Aboard-Florida-www.ccrail

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pittsburghrailfanpittsburghrailfanOGR Forum Member
Dominic Mazoch posted:

The thing looks like Houston METRO S70 LRT cars on droids!

To me, it looks like Siemens smashed the cab of a HHP8 onto an ACS-64 body, then decided to paste on the front of a truck.

I just hope AAF/Brightline succeeds. This has to be costing Fortress a lot of money. 

Does anyone know who's getting the first Charger? Is it that coalition of DOTs in the Midwest? Or is it AAF? 

P phillyreadingOGR Forum Member

The project is being worked on in Palm Beach County, we have several railroad crossings that are being updated by FEC to dual tracks. Also some new train stations are being built in southeast FL from Miami to West Palm Beach along the FEC tracks. So if this project is not going through then somebody is wasting a whole lot of money.

Lee Fritz

BN Bill NielsenOGR Forum Member

It remains to be seen whether the AAF commuter service will get enough use for it to be kept running very long. It is not designed to help the Florida residents so much as the tourists commuting between South Florida cruise ships and tourist attractions in Orlando.

However, it's primary purpose will have been fulfilled even if the service is abandoned within the first year. The real purpose of AAF is enabling the FEC to secure the right of way between Orlando and it's existing tracks which are on the East coast, and also to secure permitting for upgrading the existing single track mainline to double tracks, which will also carry greatly expanded freight traffic from the ports on the East coast of Florida. With the enlarging of the Panama Canal enabling much larger container ships to pass through, all of the ports in South Florida are also being dredged to allow for these larger vessels. 

AAF trains will be short and traveling at relatively higher speeds, so their impact on vehicle traffic at grade crossings and boating traffic at drawbridges will be nothing compared to the expanded traffic planned for the much longer, slow moving freight trains. FEC is also planning to make the freight trains much longer than they already are, and will be adding more of them per day than than the AAF commuter trains.

Bill in FtL

N naveenrajanOGR Forum Member

Found some more photos of the Siemens Charger locomotive. The shape of the following locomotives looks different from the ones for All Aboard Florida / Brightline but they are still the same Siemens diesel-electric locomotive with the same Cummins Tier-IV compliant engines. The locomotives in the following pictures with be used with the new Surfliner like passenger cars from Nippon Sharyo in California, Washington, Illinois, Michigan, Maryland & few other states for their intercity (non long-distance) trains.

These are just my opinion,

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

 

Last edited by naveenrajan
N naveenrajanOGR Forum Member

Another update on the Siemens Charger locomotive. The article I found on Railway Gazette news mentioned that they are being tested at the Transportation Technology Center test tracks in Pueblo, CO. There is also a YouTube video, of the locomotive being tested, as viewed from the air. From the pictures I found so far it seems like this locomotive will have all LED lights.

These are just my opinion,

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

Last edited by naveenrajan
P phillyreadingOGR Forum Member

Found an item in Wednesday's (8-31-2016)newspaper(section B page 8), the Palm Beach Post, new engines will be arriving this fall(no definite date set) for the All Aboard Florida train. They will be tested between Fort Lauderdale and West Palm Beach on the FEC tracks.

Also there has been several upgraded railroad crossings in Palm Beach county.

Lee Fritz

B BobbyDOGR Forum Member DIGITAL SUBSCRIBER
naveenrajan posted:

Found some more photos of the Siemens Charger locomotive. The shape of the following locomotives looks different from the ones for All Aboard Florida / Brightline but they are still the same Siemens diesel-electric locomotive with the same Cummins Tier-IV compliant engines. The locomotives in the following pictures with be used with the new Surfliner like passenger cars from Nippon Sharyo in California, Washington, Illinois, Michigan, Maryland & few other states for their intercity (non long-distance) trains.

These are just my opinion,

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

Thanks Naveen, great updates. My friends think the only thing more unattractive than this locomotive and its paint scheme is two or more of them!

N naveenrajanOGR Forum Member
pittsburghrailfan posted:

In my opinion, this locomotive definitely has more visual appeal than the Chargers that Amtrak is testing. Is the difference between the two variants solely sheetmetal? 

Dan,

My interpretation of the news I read on Railway Gazette & Progressive Railroading, related to these Siemens Charge locomotive was that they were shared a lot of parts, including the engine. But obviously they don’t look the same. So I could guess that the external sheetmetal & paint are the biggest differences.

But let’s also consider the passenger cars each of these Charger locomotives are designed to haul.

While the Charger locomotive for the commuter trains in California, Washington, Maryland & the Midwest states are being built by Siemens, the passenger cars are not being built by Siemens. The US subsidiary of the Japanese train manufacturer, Nippon Sharyo was awarded the contract to build the cars at their US facility in Rochelle, IL. These double-deck commuter cars are supposed to look similar to the Amtrak California Surfliner commuter cars & be interoperable with other Superliner, Surfliner & Amtrak California cars. So vestibule heights must be same as the existing double-decker cars. They are also supposed to have a cab car with operator controls at the end away from the locomotive. A rendering of these cars are in the following photo.

For the All Aboard Florida / Brightline trains, Siemens is providing both the locomotives & the passenger cars. And there is supposed to be a Charger locomotive at each end & so no cab cars. These passenger cars are single-deck cars based on the award-winning Siemens Viaggio cars used in the Railjet somewhat-high-speed trains (143 mph max speed) used by Austrian & Czech state railways to Germany, Hungary & Switzerland.

These are just my opinion,

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

SIRTSIRTOGR Forum Member

It will never generate enough ridership as a tourist train to support it.

I lived in Florida 30 years and it’s not a region that will ever use something like this. Most of the ROW’s are gone now or hindered by densely populated cities for it to be useful as a commuter train. People still love the freedom of automobiles and the flexibility to travel on their own schedules. I wouldn’t get to excited. Our train travel is nothing like Europe or Japan.

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