Did any of the American diesel-electric builders try to break into the BR market during the transitional period? I can understand if the locomotive had to be built and/or have "UK content". But EMD had plants and/or license contracts in Canada and Australia. ALCO had Montreal. Did FM have something in Canada? These are not the "Mother Island". But possible back door....
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Dominic Mazoch posted:Did any of the American diesel-electric builders try to break into the BR market during the transitional period? I can understand if the locomotive had to be built and/or have "UK content". But EMD had plants and/or license contracts in Canada and Australia. ALCO had Montreal. Did FM have something in Canada? These are not the "Mother Island". But possible back door....
No "American diesel units" were sold to the British Railways. The British Rail System was totally government controlled, and until Foster Yeoman forced the issue with the BR system in the 1980s, no "outside" locomotive could compete with their VERY Strict regulations & testing. First, Foster Yeoman purchased an EMD switcher unit (SW1000?) and the availability and reliability was so superior from the junk diesels in GB, Mr. John Yeoman was totally convinced in EMD power.
When Foster Yeoman obtained the contract to supply the gravel/stone for the construction of the "Chunnel Tunnel", they quickly set about to purchase U.S. rail design gravel hoppers with U.S. rail couplers and 3000HP EMD 50 Series units. The end result was four unit-train sets of U.S. type cars with one EMD unit per train. The British Rail folks could not believe the performance and reliability guarantees that EMD stated, but throughout the entire two year EMD warranty period, none of the units EVER missed a trip, working 5 to 6 days a week, with maintenance performed on Sundays. Foster Yeoman eventually purchased one additional EMD unit.
But what about the few ALCo S series. Switchers that were there?
prrhorseshoecurve posted:But what about the few ALCo S series. Switchers that were there?
Not aware that Alco shipped any products directly. Maybe they were licensed from various Alco operations in British Colonies, like India?
Please provide additional information.
Somewhere, I recall seeing a photo (either in Trains or the BRHS Burlington Bulletin) of one of the Foster-Yeoman units (in primer) being tested on the BN in the La Grange area.
Rusty
I am surprised that the person who lead the pruning of the BR system in the 1960's did not look at the motive power situation.
The FM OP engine, from what I have read, was not the simplest prime mover to fix. I guess the Deltric multiplied that by about three times?
In Australia, there were some douple ended "E units". Is AUS part of the Commonwealth?
After the breakup of BR, some of the companies did use a variant of the 710?
Dominic Mazoch posted:In Australia, there were some douple ended "E units". Is AUS part of the Commonwealth?
Dominic, you're thinking of Victoria Railways double cab units. Although they had widely spaced portholes, they were similar to an F7 (early units) or F9 (later ones), having one 16-cylinder engine instead of a pair of 12-cylinder power plants like E-units had. They were built by the Australian licensee Clyde beginning in 1951.
Many Australian Clyde/EMD units that only have one "F-unit cab" are actually double-ended and have a small cab on the rear end of the locomotive that was suitable for road service and was used when the locomotive could not be turned. New South Wales Government Railways had these (and also similar Goodwin/Alcos). It was less expensive than a second full streamlined cab, which would also have required lengthening the locomotive.
FYI...Australia is very much a part of the commonwealth as well as New Zealand ...cheers!!
Dominic Mazoch posted:I am surprised that the person who lead the pruning of the BR system in the 1960's did not look at the motive power situation.
They evidently preferred to buy at home, even though American-built locomotives were superor in many ways. The fact that very few British diesel locomotives sold outside the British Empire speaks for itself.
We can't blame them for wanting to buy British.
Hot Water posted:Dominic Mazoch posted:Did any of the American diesel-electric builders try to break into the BR market during the transitional period? I can understand if the locomotive had to be built and/or have "UK content". But EMD had plants and/or license contracts in Canada and Australia. ALCO had Montreal. Did FM have something in Canada? These are not the "Mother Island". But possible back door....
No "American diesel units" were sold to the British Railways. The British Rail System was totally government controlled, and until Foster Yeoman forced the issue with the BR system in the 1980s, no "outside" locomotive could compete with their VERY Strict regulations & testing. First, Foster Yeoman purchased an EMD switcher unit (SW1000?) and the availability and reliability was so superior from the junk diesels in GB, Mr. John Yeoman was totally convinced in EMD power.
When Foster Yeoman obtained the contract to supply the gravel/stone for the construction of the "Chunnel Tunnel", they quickly set about to purchase U.S. rail design gravel hoppers with U.S. rail couplers and 3000HP EMD 50 Series units. The end result was four unit-train sets of U.S. type cars with one EMD unit per train. The British Rail folks could not believe the performance and reliability guarantees that EMD stated, but throughout the entire two year EMD warranty period, none of the units EVER missed a trip, working 5 to 6 days a week, with maintenance performed on Sundays. Foster Yeoman eventually purchased one additional EMD unit.
SW 1001. It is quite a cool livery, in my opinion, would be something interesting in model form.
Lirr 1555 posted:Hot Water posted:Dominic Mazoch posted:Did any of the American diesel-electric builders try to break into the BR market during the transitional period? I can understand if the locomotive had to be built and/or have "UK content". But EMD had plants and/or license contracts in Canada and Australia. ALCO had Montreal. Did FM have something in Canada? These are not the "Mother Island". But possible back door....
No "American diesel units" were sold to the British Railways. The British Rail System was totally government controlled, and until Foster Yeoman forced the issue with the BR system in the 1980s, no "outside" locomotive could compete with their VERY Strict regulations & testing. First, Foster Yeoman purchased an EMD switcher unit (SW1000?) and the availability and reliability was so superior from the junk diesels in GB, Mr. John Yeoman was totally convinced in EMD power.
When Foster Yeoman obtained the contract to supply the gravel/stone for the construction of the "Chunnel Tunnel", they quickly set about to purchase U.S. rail design gravel hoppers with U.S. rail couplers and 3000HP EMD 50 Series units. The end result was four unit-train sets of U.S. type cars with one EMD unit per train. The British Rail folks could not believe the performance and reliability guarantees that EMD stated, but throughout the entire two year EMD warranty period, none of the units EVER missed a trip, working 5 to 6 days a week, with maintenance performed on Sundays. Foster Yeoman eventually purchased one additional EMD unit.
SW 1001. It is quite a cool livery, in my opinion, would be something interesting in model form.
Engine has a name plate. Like the steamers. Neat.
Was the small"cab" at the rear of the Clyde units like the cab placed in some of the "B" E units built fot the RI?
Rusty
"British Rail" (originally "British Railways") pretty much ceased to exist a couple of decades ago. Since then, the railways have been largely privatized, and some railways (like English Welsh & Scottish, a subsidiary of America's Wisconsin Central RR) bought EMD-built products. However, in most cases, the diesels were built to British design, so they had the 'innards' of an EMD engine but externally looked like a typical UK diesel (cabs on each flat-faced end, low profile to fit through old tunnels etc.).
wjstix posted:"British Rail" (originally "British Railways") pretty much ceased to exist a couple of decades ago. Since then, the railways have been largely privatized, and some railways (like English Welsh & Scottish, a subsidiary of America's Wisconsin Central RR) bought EMD-built products. However, in most cases, the diesels were built to British design,
No, they were NOT "built to British design"! Those EMD locomotives were designed by EMD Engineers to comply with the tight clearances and light axle load requirements of the British Rail System. There was lots of "head-butting" and resistance from the Derby Technical Center folks, but finally the long standing experience and quality performance of the EMD product was finally accepted. Those early Foster Yeoman units essentially revolutionized BR motive power.
so they had the 'innards' of an EMD engine but externally looked like a typical UK diesel (cabs on each flat-faced end, low profile to fit through old tunnels etc.).
Um the Foster Yeoman and subsequent Class 66 units do Not have a flat faced front. The windshields are angled in and out like a gmc fishbowl bus.
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