American Flyer GP7 FlyerChief Info

At a minimum, thus run of GP7s is likely far enough along in the process that any change at this point is not going to happen.  I think at $225ish (Ro and Trainworld) it's a relatively low risk gamble on giving one of these a shot.  I can't see most people pulling more than 10 or 12 cars with it, I think even with one motor it will do fine.  

Bluetooth + sound = a win.  I would like smoke, but I'll live without it.

Now this could be a good starting point for a RTR set. 

Ben

NotInWI posted:

At a minimum, thus run of GP7s is likely far enough along in the process that any change at this point is not going to happen.  I think at $225ish (Ro and Trainworld) it's a relatively low risk gamble on giving one of these a shot.  I can't see most people pulling more than 10 or 12 cars with it, I think even with one motor it will do fine.  

Bluetooth + sound = a win.  I would like smoke, but I'll live without it.

Now this could be a good starting point for a RTR set. 

Ben

It was never my intention to see current production suspended just because I spotted a possibility that there is potential to make these with eight wheel drive and maybe at minimal extra development costs.

I'm sure that if there is any mileage in doing this then Lionel will do what is best for them.

What is the possibility of retro fitting older AF Lionel diesels with FC capability as an upgrade option?

What is FC capability?  It would be good if people didn't use acronyms because some are not universally understood.  

FlyerChief 

Ben

This will be a nice option but will the tooling still exist to make a classic Gilbert style GP with the long narrow trucks if needed for a classic Flyer offering?

Every one has good ideas and all.  but jeesh it must be awful to work for Lionel. The minute you try to be nice and show some work. All of us experts tell them how to do their job better. And I know some one is going to follow up with why they are justified in telling Lionel how to do their job. As a self employed guy I'm just a little more sensitive to this. I love it when customers dictate how I can do my job better.

"Every one has good ideas and all.  but jeesh it must be awful to work for Lionel. The minute you try to be nice and show some work. All of us experts tell them how to do their job better. And I know some one is going to follow up with why they are justified in telling Lionel how to do their job. As a self employed guy I'm just a little more sensitive to this. I love it when customers dictate how I can do my job better."

Thank you, I could not have said it better. I for one would not be as deep into S gauge, or model railroading period, now if it were not for Lionel and in particular ERR. Do they do everything perfect, no, but I know of mistakes I have made both mechanically and verbally. I believe we, in S, need to maybe appreciate a little bit the life that Lionel has put into American Flyer. I am not saying this to discount American Models or S helper/MTH as I own their products also. I do believe we could give them, all these manufacturers, a break.

Ray

To the folks who keep suggesting putting a flat motor in the rear of a GP-7, there are at least two considerations:

-the truck must rotate, which rotates the motor. After a few degrees of rotation, the round part of the motor might hit the insides of the body.

-the power and torque characteristics of the flat motor must match the characteristics of the forward motor exactly, and at all speeds.

RoyBoy posted:

To the folks who keep suggesting putting a flat motor in the rear of a GP-7, there are at least two considerations:

-the truck must rotate, which rotates the motor. After a few degrees of rotation, the round part of the motor might hit the insides of the body.

-the power and torque characteristics of the flat motor must match the characteristics of the forward motor exactly, and at all speeds.

If you look at the SD70 and ES44 motors, they do not rotate with the trucks.

Rusty

Rusty Traque posted:

RoyBoy posted:

To the folks who keep suggesting putting a flat motor in the rear of a GP-7, there are at least two considerations:

-the truck must rotate, which rotates the motor. After a few degrees of rotation, the round part of the motor might hit the insides of the body.

-the power and torque characteristics of the flat motor must match the characteristics of the forward motor exactly, and at all speeds.

If you look at the SD70 and ES44 motors, they do not rotate with the trucks.

Rusty

I don't run any prototypes newer than 1952, so do not have either of these locos.  I was thinking of a vertical motor, a China Drive, if you will. Any vertical motor will have to rotate with the truck, or else the truck will speed up or slow down momentarily when the truck rotates.

Are the motors in the SD70 and the ES44 horizontally mounted in the trucks?

That still does not address my point that both motors must have the same torque and speed characteristics.

If Lionel ever chose to make it with twin motors, then they would both have to be the same, so in this case there would be two flat motors.

You couldn't have the current round motor at cab end and a flat motor the other.

RoyBoy posted:

Rusty Traque posted:

RoyBoy posted:

To the folks who keep suggesting putting a flat motor in the rear of a GP-7, there are at least two considerations:

-the truck must rotate, which rotates the motor. After a few degrees of rotation, the round part of the motor might hit the insides of the body.

-the power and torque characteristics of the flat motor must match the characteristics of the forward motor exactly, and at all speeds.

If you look at the SD70 and ES44 motors, they do not rotate with the trucks.

Rusty

I don't run any prototypes newer than 1952, so do not have either of these locos.  I was thinking of a vertical motor, a China Drive, if you will. Any vertical motor will have to rotate with the truck, or else the truck will speed up or slow down momentarily when the truck rotates.

Are the motors in the SD70 and the ES44 horizontally mounted in the trucks?

That still does not address my point that both motors must have the same torque and speed characteristics.

The motors on the SD70's and ES44's are mounted to the frame.  The trucks pivot around the worm gear.  Any speed difference is negligible.

Rusty

Just out of interest, what is the measurement for the inside width of the body as shown in the picture and also what is the width of the motor?

Someone else is going to have to answer this.  My "modern" stuff is packed away as I make room on the Great Plywood Glacier for the Santa Fe F3's.

Rusty

I just took a look inside my SD-70, a measurement inside the body in the location of the motor is 1 inch. A measurement over the round part of the motor yielded approximately .960 inch. The motor in the SD is not a round motor but rather has flats that run parallel to the length of the engine. The flats appear to be a smaller measurement than the flywheel which measures approx. .780 inch.

Ray

Rayin"S" posted:

I just took a look inside my SD-70, a measurement inside the body in the location of the motor is 1 inch. A measurement over the round part of the motor yielded approximately .960 inch. The motor in the SD is not a round motor but rather has flats that run parallel to the length of the engine. The flats appear to be a smaller measurement than the flywheel which measures approx. .780 inch.

Ray

The inside width of a GP body is 24.38mm, tad under an inch and the SD motor across the flats is 19.30mm, so there is room to put one in if the motor is fixed like the SD and have room for wires to run by it as well, so it could possibly be done.

Rusty Traque posted:

The motors on the SD70's and ES44's are mounted to the frame.  The trucks pivot around the worm gear.  Any speed difference is negligible.

Rusty

Fascinating. I was completely unaware of that type of system. Thanks!

Hi all. 

Wanted to give an update on the coupler situation that was raised. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

We've modified the design and tooling. The coupler opens enough now to allow the two couplers to separate.

The new coupler will be made when this year's engines go into production.

Thanks!

Dave,

Thank you from a American Flyer guy who loves the Legacy/TMCC and the Flyerchief  equipment that Lionel is producing. Lionel does listen when the right people are in the right place.

Ray

Ditto what Ray said!

Brendan

Dave Olson posted:

Hi all. 

Wanted to give an update on the coupler situation that was raised. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

We've modified the design and tooling. The coupler opens enough now to allow the two couplers to separate.

The new coupler will be made when this year's engines go into production.

Thanks!

 

Bob

Really appreciated.

Dave,

Will you be at the York show in April so I can thank you in person when I talk with Ryan?

Hi Dave,

Will the upcoming FlyerChief geeps have the same brass tubular axles and brass bearings like we see in the O scale LionChief diesels, or will they be solid steel?

Bill in FtL

"Will you be at the York show in April so I can thank you in person when I talk with Ryan?"

I will be there all 3 days. I look forward to meeting you!

"Will the upcoming FlyerChief geeps have the same brass tubular axles and brass bearings like we see in the O scale LionChief diesels, or will they be solid steel?"

They will be solid. No magnetic traction here.

But I want to note that our Customer Service Dept. hasn't received a LC+ engine in for that issue. That design is very robust and has been used in many traditional sized engines for many years. That engine seemed to be a rare exception, and upon looking at the images, had other problems that were causing issues. The excessive wear of the axle would indicate a flawed truck frame. There was also way too much corrosion and no lubrication for such a new engine.

Hi all,

We received a pre-production sample of the GP7 and I thought I would post a video so you could hear the sounds.

The volume is really good. This speaker helped out greatly. I also enjoy the new prime mover sounds Rudy made for this engine.

This also has the updated coil couplers that open further. They work great.

Let me know what you think!

Dave

I'm neither here nor there about the sound, but the new trucks (which don't look as abominable as when first shown in the catalog...) and pilots are definitely an improvement over the old Gilbert design.

I think it's a winner for the Flyer fans.

Rusty

Dave

thank you for the video, it helped me to decide I want one of these .

Dave, Thank you for posting the video of the GP, I viewed on my phone and thought it sounded descent for as much as a phone can reproduce sound. I am one of the Flyer guys and really enjoy what Lionel is doing for S gauge, and now very happy that I ordered one of these GPs.

Ray

banjoflyer posted:

Thanks for the update! I hope the Android APP for FlyerChief is nearing completion. Please keep us posted.

The APP is working well on Android phones. Just a few more kinks to work out. We're trying to size it for tablets. That's the trickier part. Estimating end of August release or so. I'll definitely announce it when it's ready!

Dave Olson posted:

banjoflyer posted:

Thanks for the update! I hope the Android APP for FlyerChief is nearing completion. Please keep us posted.

The APP is working well on Android phones. Just a few more kinks to work out. We're trying to size it for tablets. That's the trickier part. Estimating end of August release or so. I'll definitely announce it when it's ready!

Well that is cool!

Dave

Its cool you are keeping the S guys in the loop!

Ben 

Thanks Dave.  I like it.  Looking forward to my Union Pacific!!!

Looking good!

Brendan

Now if only somebody (Anybody-PLEASE! ) would make a GP in S painted for ERIE (NOT Erie-Lackawanna) like this one from Atlas O

LittleTommy

Dave,

Looks great. Can you please post a few still photos of the production sample with trucks?  Thanks!

Brendan,

I looked for the post in which you were having problems with a Flyer engine but could not find it. The problem, in the video you posted,  looked like binding in the drive train, did you ever find the problem?

Ray

RoyBoy, I just talked to Ryan Kunkle, who runs the Lionel production department, and there will NOT be 2 motors in the GP7 that will be released.  He says they will be shipped to Lionel from China in September arriving at Lionel by October.

Ray

I replaced the motor with one one Dean gave me (Thanks Dean)  Initial test looked good.  Unfortunately, life is in the way right now and haven't been able to get back to it.  I did order and receive the BlueRail board for it, though.

Brendan

I like the GP Flyer offerings in the new catalog.  But no caboose for the B&M. 

Steve