American Flyer - Prewar Tunnel Variation Guide

Unfortunately, my knowledge of tunnels from the teens, is essentially non-existent.  I simply have not observed any tunnels from the teens that I could verify the dates of.  The tin tunnel pictured above, is shown in the 1910 catalog.  The 1914 catalog does not show its tunnel in great detail, but again that should be a German manufactured tunnel.

The 1916 catalog appears to show the first composition style tunnels and lists the following tunnels:

80 - 6.5 inches long

81 - 8.5 inches long

82 - 11 inches long

83 - 14 inches long

84 - 16 inches long

The 1917 Dealer's Price List indicates the following tunnels:

81 - 8.5 inch straight tunnel

82 - 11 inch straight tunnel

83 - inch straight tunnel

84A - 16 inch straight tunnel

84B - 16 inch curved tunnel

85 - 19 inch straight tunnel

The 1919 catalog lists only the

82 - 10 inches long

83 - 14.5 inches long

I would suspect that these tunnels likely look similar to the tunnels from the early 1920s, but like I said, I have never observed one that I could verify the date of.

The following tunnel is a #82 tunnel that came with a boxed #19 set from 1921.  Side A

Side B

This is tunnel #83, which came with a boxed 1921 set.  Side A

Side B

The 1921 foldout lists tunnels

81 - 8 inches long

82 - 10 inches long

83 - 15 inches long

84 - 18 inches long

NWL

So here are a few early miscellaneous items

A boxed 82 Tunnel.  This is not mine and I thought I had a picture of the tunnel itself, but could not find it.  So here is a picture of the box.  Finding boxed O gauge tunnels is rare, but I have seen a few.

This next tunnel measures 9.5 inches long.  I suspect it would be a #81 tunnel, as the tunnel portals seem to bow outward on each end.  Side A

Side B

A 12.5 inch tunnel.  Can't really say what number this would be, but suspect somewhere between 82 and 83.  Side A

Side B

Next up is a 14 inch long tunnel.  Suspect this is an 83 tunnel.  Side A

Side B

NWL

This next tunnel is one of my favorites.  I have noted that this tunnel in particular is always hand decorated and each one seems to vary in decorating.  So here are several examples of Tunnel 85, a 2 piece composite tunnel that was packaged individually and also included in boxed set #1228.

This tunnel is most interesting also due to the fact that each side is different.

The first variation came to me as an individually boxed item and this particular one has the best decorating that I have observed.

As the following examples show, not all of the #85 tunnels are decorated so nicely as the above example

Another variation

Another variation

Lastly, an end view of the 85 tunnel.  The tunnel is held together with 2 metal clips, which often go missing.

NWL

I guess one thing I should add, is that there apparently were several different suppliers of tunnels to American Flyer over the years.  I think this is mentioned in either the Greenberg's guide, or more likely in the American Flyer Collector Club's magazine "The Collector".  I suspect the different suppliers account for the different look of the tunnels over the years.  I know that the 81, 82, 83, and 84 tunnels feature a relatively distinctive look and are somewhat lighter in construction as compared to the later tunnels, which will be featured in the upcoming posts.  

NWL

The 1922 catalog lists only an 82 tunnel at 10 inches, but if one reads through the set descriptions, for sets showing tunnels, a 15 inch tunnel is listed in set 1228, a 9.5 inch tunnel in set 1221 and also in set 19

However, the 1922 Dealer's price list indicates the following tunnels:

81 - 8 inch tunnel

82 - 10 inch tunnel

83 - 15 inch tunnel

84 - 18 inch tunnel

85 - Special Art tunnel

The 1923 catalog again only lists the 82 tunnel, but in reading through the descriptions Tunnel 83 / 14 inches is listed with set 1228 and a 9.5 inch tunnel is listed with sets 19 and 1221.

The 1923 Dealer's price list indicates the following tunnels:

81 - 8 inch tunnel

82 - 10 inch tunnel

83 - 14 inch tunnel

83-S - 16 inch tunnel

84 - 18 inch tunnel

The 1924 catalog again only lists the 82 tunnel, but in reading through the descriptions Tunnel 83 / 14 inches is listed with set 1228 and a 9.5 inch tunnel is listed with sets 19 and 1221.

The 1924 foldout shows a 2 piece 85 tunnel with set 1228 (and I have acquired a boxed set 1228 with the 2 piece tunnel)

The 1924 Dealer's price list indicates the following tunnels:

81 - 8 inch tunnel

82 - 10 inch tunnel

83 - 14 inch tunnel

83-S - 16 inch tunnel

84 - 18 inch tunnel

NWL

American Flyer either started using a new supplier in 1925, or their supplier changed its manufacturing style.  The 1925 and 1926 catalogs list the same tunnels, in 2 separate columns.

The first column is the newer style tunnels and describes the tunnels as "Hand Moulded Plaster Cement"

4255 - an 18 inch long tunnel for standard gauge

4256 - a 22 inch long tunnel for standard gauge

251 - an 8.5 inch tunnel for O gauge

252 - a 10 inch long tunnel for O gauge

253 - a 14.5 inch long tunnel for O gauge

254 - a 17 inch long tunnel for O gauge

The second column appears to be the older style tunnels, as described in my previous posts.  I base this on the tunnel numbers, but they tunnels are described as "Moulded Papier Mache" and are listed as

81 - 9 inches

82 - 10 inches

83 - 14.75 inches

84 - 18 inches

86 - 16.5 inches

 The 1925-1926 Dealer's price lists further notes the older tunnels to be "Type A" and the newer tunnels to be "Type K"

So here are some pictures of the 4255 Tunnel.  I will say that I cannot date these tunnels to a specific year, but I suspect that the second version (with the vegetation) would be the earliest version and the one below (with the box) is a later version.

Below is another 4255 variation, this one with vegetation (applied sponges)

I have not observed a 4256 tunnel, but suspect it looks similar, but longer.

As far as the other new tunnels for 1925-1926, my observations are that these tunnels are a little bit more crude in their paint and moulding than the later tunnels.  For instance, note that the roads on these tunnels are more of a line of paint than a moulded roadway.  Therefore, I suspect that the following is a 252 tunnel from the 1925-1926 era, as it measures 10 inches long.  Side A

Side B

NWL

1927 was the 20th Anniversary of American Flyer, but represented less than half of the variations of prewar tunnels.  I should note that I am only covering prewar tunnels through 1937, as that is the era I collect.

In 1927 American Flyer still listed the 4255 and 4256 tunnels for standard gauge, but their O gauge offerings changed to 

241 - 8 inch tunnel

242 - 10 inch tunnel

243 - 14 inch tunnel

244 - 16 inch tunnel

The tunnels still looked somewhat crude and I should note that the 1925 through 1928 tunnels all feature what I would consider more of a flat, non-glossy paint.

The tunnel below is a 243 tunnel that came in a boxed 1927 Bluebird set that I purchased from the original owner's estate, Side A

Side B

End

I have just discovered that this tunnel is the 244 16 inch tunnel from 1927.  There is a photo of Billy's layout at the beginning of the 1927 catalog that shows a large tunnel with the road and building orientation similar to this tunnel.

I don't have any other Tunnels that I can verify to be from 1927. 

NWL

1928 represents another change for the tunnels.  For the first time American Flyer devotes a whole page in the catalog to tunnels and they also start naming the tunnels.  They also show artwork for each of the tunnels. 

The catalog lists the standard gauge tunnels as:

4254 - Allegheny - 19.5 inches, as pictured below

The other standard gauge offering was the 4257 - Cascade - 23 inches, which features 2 telegraph poles mounted on the top.  Side A

Side B

End view

One notable feature of the 1928 only Cascade tunnel is this bridge railing

The bridge railing can be dated to 1928 only, due to the observation of an original boxed 4257 tunnel and the fact that the Cascade tunnel features a new number and glossy paint for 1929.

The 1928 catalog also lists the following O gauge tunnels

251 - Hudson - 8 inches

252 - Hoosac - 11 inches

253 - Moffat - 15 inches

Below is a Moffat tunnel that is from 1928, Note that the building is on the opposite end from the Moffat tunnel of 1929 (which has a label inside).  This tunnel is only 15 inches long and that is the length described in the 1928 catalog, with the 1927 large tunnel being 16 inches long and the 1929 Moffat tunnel being 16 inches long.  

Side A

Side B

Note the 2 roads painted on the sides of the tunnel do not meet.  

NWL

The 1929 catalog again devotes a whole page to tunnels, but there are some things to note.  First, the artwork is simply re-used from the 1928 catalog, but the descriptions and tunnel numbers change.

The standard gauge tunnels are now numbered 4266 - Alleghany - 16 inches, and no I did not spell Alleghany incorrect, it is spelled that way in the catalog.

These tunnels are the same design as the 1928 tunnels, but feature glossy paint.  In 1929, the tunnels feature labels on their inside.  The tunnel labels appear for a short time only and I will detail that further later.

Here is an Allegheny tunnel label

And photos of a 4266 Tunnel (note this tunnel does not have a label inside of it), side A

Side B

At some point, the Allegheny tunnel also gets a plate above the opening of the portal on one side.  The above tunnel does not have the plate on it, but the 4267 - Cascade - 23 inch tunnel below has it.

The descriptions of the O gauge tunnels differs slightly in 1929.  Again, the numbers change slightly, but only 3 tunnels are shown in the catalog (again, it appears to be somewhat of stock artwork first used in the 1928 catalog).  The catalog lists the following tunnels and notes:

261 - Hudson - 8 inches long (as Illustrated)

Side A

side b

end

262 - Blue Ridge - 10 inches long (Not illustrated) 

I don't have a photo of a Blue Ridge tunnel with a label inside, so I will post the Blue Ridge tunnel later.

263 - Hoosac - 12 inches

264 - Moffat - 16 inches

NWL

OK, I mentioned there was a way to date the tunnel labels.  Here it is:

The 261 Hudson tunnel

The 261 Hudson tunnel was cataloged only in 1929.  Therefore, these labels were used in at least 1929.  I cannot verify any other years, but can say, that I have never observed any labels with tunnel names that do not appear in the 1929 catalog.  

The 1930 catalog again shows the same artwork that was used in the 1928 and 1929 catalogs, but again the descriptions change, at least for the O gauge tunnels.

I correct that, whoever mis-spelled Alleghany in the 1929 catalog, appears to have corrected their spelling for the 1930 catalog.  LOL!

Again the 4266 Allegheny and 4267 Cascade tunnels are shown.

The O gauge tunnels for 1930 include:

260 - Washington - 6.5 inches.  (Not Illustrated)

This tunnel is listed as being part of the Queen City windup set and I found my first one in a Nation Wide Lines boxed set that essentially is the same as the Queen City set.

Note, this tunnel does not have a house/building moulded into the side of it and it is the first tunnel that came without the house/building.

The 262 - Blue Ridge - 10 inch tunnel is listed, Side A

Side B

The 263 Hoosac and 264 Moffat tunnels are also listed.

Not listed with a separate sale description, but shown and described with "The Clipper" set is an 8.5 inch long tunnel.  Here is the one that came with my boxed Clipper set

NWL

The 1931 catalog changes the artwork, so that only 1 O gauge tunnel is illustrated and 1 standard gauge tunnel is illustrated.

The catalog lists the same numbers as 1930

Standard gauge tunnels 4266 and 4267

O gauge tunnels 260, 262, 263, and 264.

The description of the tunnel with the Clipper set is 8 inches and the description for the tunnel with the Railroader set is #261 - 8 inches.  Although from the description it sounds like they are using the 261 Hudson tunnel from 1929, my original Railroader set came with a tunnel that is identical to the tunnel with my Clipper set

The Dealer's price list further lists an "Express" tunnel that is 10 inches long (Note it is the same length as the 262 Blue Ridge tunnel).  The notable difference between the Express and Blue Ridge tunnels is the price, with the Express tunnel having a suggested retail price of $0.55 and the Blue Ridge tunnel having a suggested retail price of $1.00.

So what is the "Express" tunnel?  My best guess is that it is the following tunnel, which is illustrated with the Empire City and Skylark windup sets.  The tunnel pictured below came with a boxed Nation Wide Lines set that is identical to a Skylark set.

Until I purchased my boxed set, I would have never guessed that this was a Flyer tunnel, but in comparing it to various Flyer artwork images, I concluded that it is Flyer.  Additionally, I will add that I only noted the listing for the Express tunnel in the Dealer's price list while writing this post.

The above tunnel features very cheap / thin construction as compared to the more expensive tunnels, but 1931 was the middle of the depression, so American Flyer had to find some way to make the lower end sets more affordable.

NWL

So this is where Flyer and tunnels can be confusing.

The 1932 catalog shows the same artwork as the 1931 catalog, but again the descriptions are different.

The standard gauge tunnels are again the 4266 and 4267 tunnels.

But the O gauge tunnels have slightly different descriptions

261 - Jefferson - 8.5 inches.  So this appears to confirm that the tunnel shown in the Clipper and Railroader sets, is not the 261 Hudson tunnel, as although it has the same number, it has a different name.

The 262, 263, and 264 tunnels feature the same descriptions.

The dealer's price list now includes the Jefferson tunnel, but no longer includes the "Express" tunnel.  I note that the Skylark set artwork appears to still show the Express tunnel, but the Empire City artwork now shows a more conventional tunnel similar to the Jefferson tunnel.

The 1933 catalog shows similar artwork and descriptions to the 1933 catalog, with the exception that the Skylark and Empire City sets are no longer cataloged.  A new Warrior windup set is cataloged, which shows a more conventional tunnel, no length listed.

1934 brings new / upgraded tunnel options.  

First, I will note that the 4266 Allegheny tunnel is no longer listed.  The 4267 tunnel is still listed, but no name is associated with it.

A new 4268 standard gauge tunnel is listed, with the prominent mention that it is a lighted tunnel.

The 4268 tunnel is simply the 4266 Allegheny tunnel with lights installed on one end.

For the O gauge line, a similar development, the 261, 262, and 263 tunnels are still listed, again no names listed in the catalog and a new 245 tunnel is listed.

The 245 tunnel is simply the 264 Moffat tunnel with lights installed.

They look a bit better when lighted up

NWL

The 1935 catalog now shows only a single tunnel image and now only lists 3 tunnels

O gauge listings include:

261 - 8.5 inch tunnel

247 - 11 inch tunnel

I was able to identify the 247 tunnel simply due to acquiring one with a price tag on the inside that listed the number.

Note that this tunnel does not have a building moulded into the side.

Both of the above tunnels being listed as Non-lighted tunnels.

A single lighted tunnel is listed as

246 - 15.5 inches and it is noted that it works with either standard gauge or O gauge.  

First, I would note that although it is listed for either standard or O gauge, this tunnel does not have the clearance for some of the earlier Wide Gauge locomotives with pantographs on the top.

Again, it looks better lighted

NWL

The 1936 catalog only lists 2 tunnels,

The 247, which is shown above and the 248 - 15 inch long tunnel

The 248 tunnel was difficult to initially identify, but I finally realized that this odd tunnel I purchased many years ago was 15 inches long and matched the characteristics of the 247 tunnel.

NWL

Finally, 1937, the last year the company was owned by WO Coleman.

In 1937, only a single tunnel is listed.

The 242 is described as being 10.5 inches long. Like the 248 tunnel, I realized that due to the characteristics of the tunnel and the length of the tunnel that it is a 242 tunnel

NWL

OK, I am essentially done with my listing of American Flyer prewar tunnels.  I should note that all of the tunnel photos posted in this guide so far, are mine, with the exception of the tin lithograph tunnel shown in the first post and the picture of the box for the #82 tunnel.  Needless to say, I have a mountain of a problem (or several little mountains and a couple of bigger ones, all which take up space).

If anyone has comments, questions, or variations, please post them now.

NWL

So an odd coincidence, I went on ebay after writing this article and I find the tin 2-piece KB tunnel similar to the one pictured in the first post.  I have been looking for one of those for a while.  Will have to put that in the Edmonds-Metzel cabinet.

NWL

Stellar work!  I shall keep it book marked for reference!

Thanks for doing this NWL.  Rob - why bookmark?  Just copy/paste and save for a reference. 

  Ok, here's my addition.  The pictured set is a #26 and came boxed but not with all of the items shown in the 1923 catalog.  Based on characteristics of the set itself - the lack of a raised area under the cab where "A.F. 16" is cast, the mix of the truck types on the cars, and the lack of an observation I've always thought it was a 1923.  The set may be but, given what you have shown it does not look like the tunnel is original to the set.  There are no markings and the dimensions match the description of the #82 but the overall finish and mold quality don't match what you have shown for the early '20's.

The second item is my #261 Hudson Tunnel

   Based on your photograph it looks like they must have had multiple molds for the tunnel (which would make sense given one-tunnel-at-a-time production would have been ridiculously  slow) which varied slightly.  I just took this picture and tried to match the camera angle to what you have.  The valley between the peaks at the top of my tunnel looks to be deeper than yours, the house location and size appear to be slightly different and the base of the tunnel on the house side on my tunnel has more flare and actually makes the flare side longer than the opposite side.   I set a straightedge across the peaks and had a go at measuring the valley depth - I get 5/8".

Inside

     The only downside to your post is that it looks like I not only have to try to find a correct tunnel for the #26 set but that I have to start looking for another tunnel for my Clipper set.  Since the Hudson tunnel matched the description of the dimensions for the tunnel in the Clipper set I figured the fact that #261 wasn't listed in the 1930 catalog was just another one of those Flyer things but I guess not.  Oh well, so it goes.  Again - I really appreciate all the time and effort you put into providing this information.

RSB,

How long is your Hudson tunnel?  How long is the tunnel with your 1923 set?

That is a different tunnel than my Hudson tunnel as my Hudson tunnel is much narrower, almost to narrow to fit anything other than a wind-up set through it.  My guess is that the narrowness of my Hudson tunnel is why it was discontinued, in favor of the 261 Jefferson tunnel.

I do have a similar tunnel that came with my Railroader set in 1931, which would have been a 261 tunnel, but per the catalogs likely a 261 Jefferson tunnel.   Here is the tunnel that came with my Railroader set 

My guess is that Flyer had extra labels?  The ones with the labels are just more difficult to find, so I don't have a ton of information on them.

I would leave that tunnel with your Clipper set as it is probably correct.  

I have so many tunnels that it was hard to keep track of them when posting to this guide and it appears that I did not post photos of that exact variation.  

The tunnel with your c. 1923 set is definitely a later tunnel than 1923.  

NWL

#261 Hudson Tunnel Dimensions

Length at base - house side 9 1/2", length other side at base 8 3/4".  

Maximum height - base to top of highest peak - 6 1/2"

Base to top of tunnel opening - 4 3/4"

Width of tunnel opening at base - 5 1/2"

Overall width of tunnel - just a shade less than 8".

  It just occurred to me that I've never actually run the Clipper set with the tunnel - I just went up and checked.  With the engine on O gauge track it is a tight fit - about a half an inch all around with respect to cab roof/fittings and cab roof overhang.

The #26 set is packed away so I'll have to dig it out - I do recall measuring it and I'm almost certain it is the same dimensions as Flyer listed for the No. 82 but I will rummage and get back to you on that.

  As long as I'm here - I do have another tunnel to add to the photo gallery.  The label is missing but you can see where one was attached on the inside.  It matches the #263 Hoosac dimensions and catalog illustration so I've always assumed that is what it was.  However, as you can see the paint treatment is quite different from the one you have pictured.  Given the differences in the paint treatment of some of the other tunnels you have shown I guess this isn't surprising.

Robert S. Butler posted:

 

  As long as I'm here - I do have another tunnel to add to the photo gallery.  The label is missing but you can see where one was attached on the inside.  It matches the #263 Hoosac dimensions and catalog illustration so I've always assumed that is what it was.  However, as you can see the paint treatment is quite different from the one you have pictured.  Given the differences in the paint treatment of some of the other tunnels you have shown I guess this isn't surprising.

The problem with matching the dimensions of the tunnels, is that Flyer cataloged several tunnels with similar dimensions over the years.  A good example of that is the large O gauge tunnel, 19 inches 1925-1926, 16 inches in 1927, 15 inches in 1928, 16 inches in 1929-1934.  However, your tunnel does match the Hoosac tunnel I posted a picture of, so I would guess that is what it was.

Generally my experience with the tunnels is that the tunnel molds are similar from year to year from about 1929 through 1934-35, so it is possible to identify a Hoosac tunnel by comparing the road/building orientation.

As for the paint of the tunnels, my guess is that all Flyer tunnels were hand-decorated, as the paint varies on all of the variations that I have.  Some have more blue, some more red, some more white, it just varies between them.  I have also discovered that some lose more paint over the years than others, so possibly some had thin paint or unpainted areas originally.  

The other thing that significantly affects the look of the tunnels, is dust/dirt, as the tunnels will turn dark with lots of dust/dirt on them.  I have learned how to clean them, but that is not perfect either, as sometimes it takes off lose paint.

One of the hardest things about classifying the American Flyer tunnels is that they varied so much over the years, especially from 1925-1929.  I have been buying Flyer tunnels for the last 15 years, constantly searching for the different variations.  One of the last acquisitions I made was the 1927 - 16 inch long tunnel.  I was excited to see it offered due to the different road / house orientation.  It was only tonight, when reviewing the catalogs again, that I looked closely at the photo of Billy's train layout in the 1927 catalog, that I noted the image of that tunnel, with the road/house orientation.

NWL

Robert S. Butler posted:

Thanks for doing this NWL.  Rob - why bookmark?  Just copy/paste and save for a reference. 

Because I am hoping this will be a living breathing post... I want the most info possible!

Fair enough.

This submission may be a bit of a stretch, but examination of the Gilbert New Haven AF catalogs from 1939-41 and 1946-49 contain an illustration of a No. 247 (and No. 249) tunnel of a later style with two bumps on the top with a more simple design than the ones beautifully posted above. Offered here because it is interesting, arguably relevant, and pretty darned tough to find is a No. 247 (circa 1946) also made of hand-painted pressed cardboard and paper.

Respectfully,

Bob 

Bob B.

Thanks for adding the Gilbert variation.  I don't collect Gilbert and was not familiar with that tunnel.  I am more familiar with the styrofoam tunnel that Gilbert sold in the prewar era.  

NWL

Nation Wide Lines posted:

Bob B.

Thanks for adding the Gilbert variation.  I don't collect Gilbert and was not familiar with that tunnel.  I am more familiar with the styrofoam tunnel that Gilbert sold in the prewar era.  

NWL

 NWL:

Pretty sure you meant "the styrofoam tunnel that Gilbert sold in the (sic.) postwar era".  That's OK.  The postwar AF tunnels were the No. 249 done in molded fiberboard (49-56), and the No. 23249 in molded fiberboard (57-60) or Styrofoam(TM) (61-64).

But, let's get back to prewar AF. All the best.

Bob

Bob Bubeck posted:

Nation Wide Lines posted:

Bob B.

Thanks for adding the Gilbert variation.  I don't collect Gilbert and was not familiar with that tunnel.  I am more familiar with the styrofoam tunnel that Gilbert sold in the prewar era.  

NWL

 NWL:

Pretty sure you meant "the styrofoam tunnel that Gilbert sold in the (sic.) postwar era".  That's OK.  The postwar AF tunnels were the No. 249 done in molded fiberboard (49-56), and the No. 23249 in molded fiberboard (57-60) or Styrofoam(TM) (61-64).

But, let's get back to prewar AF. All the best.

Bob

Could be.  I am not familiar with the Gilbert tunnels.

For what it is worth and to amplify a citation, on pages 122 through 126, Alan Schuweiler's "Greenberg's Guide to American Flyer Wide Gauge" has, first, a table listing most of the AF prewar tunnels followed by descriptions and some illustrations. The No. 25 is clearly not included. Given that the book was published in 1989, presumably there are additions/clarifications to be made.

Bob

In an attempt to add some information on the tunnels cataloged 1938 through 1941, I examined my original catalogs.

The 1938 catalog lists tunnels

242 - 10.5 inches

247 - 11 inches

248 - 15 inches

The catalog shows an illustration of 1 tunnel and these tunnels appear to be the same tunnels from the 1935-1937 era, which would make sense as there were probably unsold items when Gilbert purchased the company in 1938.

The 1939 - 1941 catalogs lists the following tunnels:

247 - 11 inches

248 - 14 inches

The illustration shows a tunnel similar to Bob B's tunnel pictured above.

Again, this is where it gets confusing as Gilbert seems to have re-used the same numbers for different tunnels.  

NWL

Bob - there are so many additions/corrections to be made to the accessory section of the AF Wide Gauge book that about the only thing I've found it good for is a simple listing of accessory numbers and possibly some sort of timeline.  My guess is that if there had been a second edition that section would have seen a major revamping.

Robert S. Butler posted:

Bob - there are so many additions/corrections to be made to the accessory section of the AF Wide Gauge book that about the only thing I've found it good for is a simple listing of accessory numbers and possibly some sort of timeline.  My guess is that if there had been a second edition that section would have seen a major revamping.

Agreed. I attempted to say something along the same lines, but more gently. 

However, folks reading through this thread and absorbing this topic on a first pass should be made aware of Mr. Schuweiler's scholarship of the time. The table on page 122 is very good. One's alternative back then was to pick through many issues of The Collector. Given that it was 32 years ago, the chaos inherent to the subject, and the resulting incomplete nature of the accessories portion of the book, Section 8 Tunnels, on AFMCo. tunnels is actually still quite serviceable, but in need of a revamp, as you say. Errors of omission rather than commission. That's why it is so wonderful to see NWL initiate and seriously flesh out the topic of AF prewar tunnel variations in this thread.

Respectfully,

Bob

Bob Bubeck posted:

Robert S. Butler posted:

Bob - there are so many additions/corrections to be made to the accessory section of the AF Wide Gauge book that about the only thing I've found it good for is a simple listing of accessory numbers and possibly some sort of timeline.  My guess is that if there had been a second edition that section would have seen a major revamping.

Agreed. I attempted to say something along the same lines, but more gently. 

However, folks reading through this thread and absorbing this topic on a first pass should be made aware of Mr. Schuweiler's scholarship of the time. The table on page 122 is very good. One's alternative back then was to pick through many issues of The Collector. Given that it was 32 years ago, the chaos inherent to the subject, and the resulting incomplete nature of the accessories portion of the book, Section 8 Tunnels, on AFMCo. tunnels is actually still quite serviceable, but in need of a revamp, as you say. Errors of omission rather than commission. That's why it is so wonderful to see NWL initiate and seriously flesh out the topic of AF prewar tunnel variations in this thread.

Respectfully,

Bob

I would also say that the listing of the tunnels in the chart in the Greenberg's guide is good, but the photos are somewhat poor quality, photos are in black and white only, the chart does not include the variations for 1938-1941, and some of the photos are not labeled/captioned as to what tunnel they are. 

One mistake of the guide that sticks out to me, is that the Cascade tunnel shown on Page 125, appears to have its negative reversed, as all of the variations I have ever seen have the house on the left and the roads going opposite to what is shown in that photograph.  To prove that all one has to do is look at the catalog artwork at the top of Page 124, which shows a Cascade Tunnel, with the building on the left and the roads reverse to the photo on page 125.

As you guys mentioned, the Greenberg's guide was published 32 years ago and some areas are in need of a refreshment.  The Greenberg's guide is a reflection of the resources and information technologies that were available at the time.  It is much easier and quicker for us to share information/photos via the internet than it was to share information when the guide was published.  The guide is what it is, and there are unlikely to be any updates to either of the American Flyer prewar guides.  

NWL

Nation Wide Lines posted:

<snip> I would also say that the listing of the tunnels in the chart in the Greenberg's guide is good, but the photos are somewhat poor quality, photos are in black and white only, the chart does not include the variations for 1938-1941, and some of the photos are not labeled/captioned as to what tunnel they are.  <snip>

 

NWL

Well, yes. And, the treatment, in general, of prewar Gilbert is pretty grim. 

Bob

Here's a potential oddity for your consideration.

The pictured tunnel is molded papier-mache, is 15" long, is not labeled on the inside, and has no decorative buildings or roads, etc. on its sides. It features a relatively simple two bump design scheme a la Gilbert. Another knowledgeable Flyer collector friend and I believe this to be a No. 248 from the circa 1938 Gilbert period fabricated like an AFMCo. tunnel. There were numerous manufacturing techniques carried over from Chicago to New Haven during the transition. The coloration is consistent with AF for this period, but the rectangular openings do not fit the theory.  It is not Marx, Lionel, or Jefferson, so by the process of elimination we are back to considering prewar Flyer. Another possibility is this is a separate sale piece by a subcontractor for American Flyer. "Side 1" and "Side 2" are shown below. Suggestions and comments are welcome.

Have fun!

Bob