American Flyer question.

16B,1954-1956

18B,1954-1956

22035,1958-1964

22050,1958

22060,1958

175 watt Transformers.

Thank you very much.  You will be my go to guy for older Flyer info.  I love Flyer and do all the Legacy for Charles Ro.

One last question if I may,  were those pure sine wave transformers?

Yes pure sine wave transformers.

Thank you.  I have a Legacy PA set and the owner is running it with the transformer mentioned and is having trouble getting speed.  I put the Z4000 to it and it is a rocket ship.  The Legacy needs a chopped wave to run at top performance.

Marty, the Legacy PA should run the same with an original Gilbert transformer as with the Z4000. The difference will be dramatic in smoke production but it should not affect speed. There is likely something wrong with the owners transformer. I have twelve Lionel Legacy steam and diesel S gauge engines and except for smoke volume they run the same with a constant 14V regardless of the power source I use. I use 14V for the AF engines because I have a lot of original Gilbert illuminated cars and higher voltages fail the bulbs and overheat the plastic cars. I have found no discernible operating difference with the Lionel AF engines at the slightly reduced voltage.

Obtain great operation of the new D&H AlCos under Legacy control using a Gilbert 30B (nominally 300 Watts, 18 volts, dual control) and a 19B (nominally 300 Watts, 15 volts, single control). All of my AF-L legacy engines function perfectly and smoke well using Gilbert power. Operations in this case appear to be independent of wave shape.

Bob

Remember that some of the AF transformers top out at 15 volts, while a few of the larger ones go to 18 volts. The MTH Z-4000 goes higher than any of these, IIRC.

I have a Gilbert 30B that is an 18 volt model to run my Legacy AF locomotives. I've added a Legacy Powermaster 6-37146 in line and it works for me.

1. Shuts off track power faster than 30B in case of derailment or other short. Don't want to take chance with expensive electronics.

2. Puts out chopped wave shape, maximizes smoke output in some models.

3. Has switch to operate in conventional mode, allows using Legacy controller for other conventional locomotives.

Street price about $75, requires additional adapter chord($15) from 30B to Powermaster as the Powermaster is using the AC power from the 30B.

This unit is not intended to be used with transformers already putting out chopped sine wave shapes like the Z4000. It's intended to be used with AC transformers putting out smooth sine wave shapes. Lionel has some videos on their website that gets into this topic. There are probably some threads elsewhere on this forum about this too!

All good info guys.  I work on many Legacy Flyer engines and needed info on the transformer the customer is using.  I find the modern Flyer run very well with the Z4K.  This is not the first time I have had this complaint on speed output.  Myself, I think anyone running modern locomotives should use modern transformers.  Over the years I have seen many destroyed MTH boards from someone using an old ZW.  If you say something bad to the ZW owner, some take it very bad.  You would be better off calling their Mother a bad name.

I find Flyer guys much easier to deal with.   If I was starting over, I would stick to the new Flyer.  The S gauge guys will be very happy when they see the new MTH locomotive.

Guys, thank you very much for some good information.

Marty

MTH had a beautiful F unit on display at York.  I will get you more information.  A while ago, Charles Ro had a number of freight cars and they are beautiful.  They roll with no effort.

That's because they're the former SHS locomotives...

SHS circa 2003.  F7's left, F3's right:

MTH has a very good place to start from and a standard to live up to.  I guess January 2016 is now the latest estimate for delivery.

Rusty

Rusty,

Showoff!  Just kidding, LOL.   That is some nice looking motive power.

You beat me to it.  I also thought of posting a photo of a few of mine, but alas, they are all packed away right now and, anyways, my photo would have paled in comparison to your thoughtfully staged display. 

Do you have a close-up to better show some of the great detailing?

Thanks for posting the photos, Mike A.

Happy to oblige.

F3's.  I very carefully modified the passenger pilot inset on the Q unit to have the coupler doors open:

F7's

And the one F3 I kept HiRail...

I've been waiting for the MTH Santa Fe F3's.

Rusty

The MTH will have DCS.  This opens up a new world.  We are all very lucky to be in the hobby at a time when all these great products are made.

Flyer 52,  the Z4000 does not put out a chopper sine wave.

Hi Marty, you are correct! I double checked the PowerMaster owner's manual and the Z4000 is listed as pure sine wave. The MTH Z-750 and Z-1000 are listed as chopped sine wave. Thanks for keeping me honest.

Mike