American Flyer Std Gauge 4039, what do you know about these??

Hi Jeff

A very nice locomotive. The 4039 was made in 1926 only, and was used in set number 1453 which was the first Presidents Special this set came with three 19 inch passenger cars and the color is Imperial Buff. Have you put power to it? Does the motor move? Since you said it was stored inside, should probably run reasonably well. A little lucubration on the armature shafts where they come out of the motor into the frame would make it easier to run. Taking the shell off, you remove the two screws one on each side center of the frame. Gently lift the shell straight up, the wires for the headlights are there as you lift so be careful.  If the motor does not work try moving the actuation lever of the reversing unit sometimes the reverse unit gets into a null spot and the motor wont run.  When running one headlight is on, reverse you get the other. If you need to change a light bulb, gently squeeze at the base of the chrome  headlight shroud and gently lift. The wheels look good as do the pick up rollers, so probably just lucubration on the armature shaft and perhaps the wheels at the axles perhaps a little cleaning with cotton swab and alcohol. I am sure you will have it running fine real soon.

Enjoy

Frank                       

Thanks Frank!! Popped the shell, added power and it took off!! Time for a good cleaning and lube.

Thanks again for all the tips!!

@Jeff T posted:

A friend who knows I like to tinker with trains just dropped off the above set to see if I could get it running.

Backstory. Her Father owned a hotel in Oak Park, IL and this set ran around the hotel tree during the holidays. It had been boxed up for many years. Looks like it has been stored inside as the train is well worn but really clean.

Thanks!!

Oil the axle bearings, some grease on the gears, apply power and see what happens.

Jim

OK, it runs!!!! Now to get some bulbs to light it up!!

Since this is out of my wheelhouse, does anyone make replacement track for these sets?? Thanks!

Many new choices in Standard or Wide Gauge Track:

Gargraves 501 37" Flexible Straight Track, 4-Sections, Standard Gauge

with wood ties, tinplate or Stainless Steel rails USA made.

MTH with plastic ties & roadbed or metal ties from China.

USA track with metal ties, better than the china made models.

Used  Ives, Lionel or American Flyer track from Ebay or Show Dealers.

Ross has switches and track custom made in USA.

Hi Jeff

You are most welcome sir!

So glad everything is working out. Good Job!  I had a strong feeling that it was going to be just a lubrication and cleaning. You mentioned getting track and the post above gives some great suggestions. Is this for you, or does your friend want to run the train. Do you have the three cars? The reason I ask is that back in the days of Wide Gauge / Standard Gauge 042 was the radius. train will run on this but with 19 inch cars it will run much better and look much better on 072 which you can get now. My last thought is be careful. Tinplate, especially standard gauge is very addictive. American flyer wide gauge ( they could not call it standard gauge Lionel had that term trademarked, but its the same size ) trains have a feel and a special presence to them and once you see and hear them running you just may have to get some of these beautiful trains for your very own Once that happens there is no turning back

If you have more thoughts and questions, just ask

Enjoy

Frank

Thanks for all the help!!!!

One more question!! Which end would be considered the front?? End with the bell or end with the pantograph?

As I understand the general rule, electric motors ran with the pantograph closer to the rear end than the front when possible.  That way, if it snagged on something, damage to the topside was minimal.  Motors with two pantographs generally ran with the one to the rear up for the same reason.

Further, the bell tended to be forward to project its sound to the front as a warning.

You sent me off to do a little research. As I thought, nearly all the prototype boxcabs had dual controls at both ends of the cab and were designed to run either way. Now whether they preferred a single pantograph at the front of rear, I couldn't determine.

Very true about the dual controls.  One element I just thought of:  some of the motors that we play with didn't spend much time under catenary at all:  they were primarily 3rd rail powered.  That's why the pantographs on some are so small;  they were used in limited territories.  The Milwaukee Rd BiPolars are an obvious exception.

Hi Jeff

As palallian has correctly mentioned the bell goes to the front the pantograph to the rear. Some further amplification. The 4039 you are working with, and for that matter all the American Flyer 20th Century Boxcab locomotives  were modeled on the New York Central's "T motors" or T class electrics these along with the S class could operate on electrified third rail picking the power up via a sliding shoe contact mounted down by the wheels or via the small pantograph when operating in the New York Centrals tunnel system where the third rail was considered dangerous and could be shorted out with water from rain or melting snow in and out of the city and of course Grand Central Terminal.

     " The Milwaukee Rd Bipolar are an obvious exception."

As is the Pennsylvania Railroad GG1 which like the Milwaukee Roads Bipolar had two large pantographs and operated throughout their extensive electrified system, using the rear pantograph up most of the time. In the winter they would run both pantographs up the rear picking up the power the front acting as an ice scraper on the wire.

Enjoy      

Frank

Most east coast railroads ran with the rear pantograph up, that way preventing the front one from ripping to bits and destroying the back one, leaving the loco stranded. True about MILW electrics, they ran with more pantographs up, and if you notice, they have extra braces to knock off icicyles.  When PRR got the surplused Great Northern Y1 electrics (modified by PRR into 'FF2'), they had to run both pantographs up to keep the motor generators in them running, a different design from later electrics.

Update and a couple final questions. Here's what I've done so far.

• Cleaned and oiled the engine - runs like a champ
• Replaced all the 1447 / 18v bulbs
• Found the manual for their Lionel Type Z transformer
• Determined the bell would be the front of the engine
• Identified a couple sources for new track

With the shell I can make either end of the chassis the front by moving the lever underneath. Does the chassis have a definitive front/rear? I guess I'm accustomed to my Lionel's and the shell only fitting one way!

Once buttoned up it will go back to the original owners daughter, now about 60, who hasn't seen it run since she was a little girl!!

One correction about the power system in the GCT tunnels: The third rail was present throughout except for the gaps among the numerous switches where those small tunnel pantographs were automatically used to bridge those gaps. That was their express, dedicated purpose. Thus they were an adjunct to the primary third rail slider shoes on these relatively short wheelbase S Class motors (NYC term for electric engines).

"With the shell I can make either end of the chassis the front by moving the lever underneath. Does the chassis have a definitive front/rear?"

No it does not.  

Enjoy

Frank

Art

Thank You for that information. I did not know the third rail did not include the turnouts. Have a wonderful day

Enjoy

Frank

As a young man (age 16 in 1958) I worked at a cigar/cigarette stand in the Lincoln Building at 60 East 42nd St. directly across from GCT. In fact there was a tunnel access to GCT from our building and I would often catch lunch at the Nedick's counter in the station. Then I would wander to the inbound tracks and one day observed a venerable S Class motor at the bumper post. It had those two small tunnel pantographs and there was no visible overhead trolley wire since this engine arrived primarily by third rail power. Conversely, I also knew from both the Lionel models and the real GG1's I often saw in Sunnyside Yard, that their pans were much larger and took their power from the overhead catenary wire.

NYC commuter trains had MU connections with multiple cars with third rail shoes and could readily negotiate GCT tunnel switches with no need for pantographs.