American Flyer Wide Gauge Sets with Steam Locomotive and 19 inch cars

There is a new book released in past couple months on Flyer Wide Gauge sets that should get you the answer.

Steve

Hi Steve and Happy New year to you and your family

There really was no question. Just posted the result of some fun research that I thought perhaps some would find interesting.

The Book you speak of I assume is the one by Fritz Von Tagen and Alan Schuweiler.  American Flyer Wide Gauge Sets. I was hoping to receive that book for Christmas. Will see my son tomorrow and ask him what is the info on it. perhaps it is coming

Frank

Yes, that’s the book. It is very well laid out and amazing photography

Steve

Good to hear. I am looking forward to getting a copy one way or the other.

Frank

I did get it for Christmas, and I can second what Papa Eastman says about it.  I will just submit the book to my wife when she asks me for a list of what I want for Christmas next year. . . .

Palallin,

Thank you for the input, Happy New Year to you and your family

So when you give the book to your wife are you going to ask for one of each, or just have her pick one?

Frank

The same to you!

Well, when I told her my plan, she said she'll just re-wrap the book and give it back to me

Excellent!  That is a very smart woman you have there sir.

Frank

Dont you mean the 4694, and 4696 locos?

4094 and 4096 are not AF numbers.

Hi Rob

Thank you for the correction. As I was gathering the information, a little fun project for New Years Eve. I wrote it wrong once on the notes and then just followed the error. Happy New Year to you and your family.

Frank

Just to add some additional info to your list:

In 1929 the minute man had an Ives body type locomotive and an Ives type coal tender.

In 1930 the minute man had an Ives body locomotive and was cataloged with the new AF vandy tender.

In 1931 the  minute man came with the new AF casting locomotive with the AF vandy tender (4696 L&T combo).

The '31 minute man still had 4 cars.  As you probably noticed (and mentioned in your list), it drops to 3 cars in 1932 corresponding with the name change to "NEW minute man".

The 1931 Flying Colonel came with a 4694X loco/Tender.  This combo includes a 4692X (triangle valve gear, no firebox light, no bell ringer), and the 4693 Vanderbilt style tender.

The regular (non X) 4692 just has regular base model type rods.

The X locomotives I don't believe were ever specifically mentioned as "X" in the catalog, however in the set descriptions that contain an "X" locomotive,  it talks about the "fascinating connecting rods" or something like that.  The locomotive boxes that contain "X" locomotives were stamped "4692X" in the early days (1931, possibly into 1932?), denoting the trim level upgrade to the triangle style valve gear.

Reading the descriptions under the sets and on the separate sale pages of the catalogs in great detail is key with AF.  The illustrations are often incorrect both in colors and styles, as they often just reused old illustrations from prior years.  Many times you will find just subtle changes in the text descriptions that are barely noticeable at first glance.

Ives 1122

Thank You for the additional information. I completely missed the 1931 Minute Man ( same set number , 1488 as years 1920 and 1930) it’s in the rectangle at the bottom corner of page 16. So 1931 has two sets with 19 inch cars pulled by steam locomotives. The 1494 Flying Colonel and the 1488 Minute Man. Reading the detailed description is indeed the key I did see a few times where the illustration did not match the description. Page 15 of the 1933 catalog the 1492RC Century set is shown with tan cars with green roof description says latest color is light blue with red roof color schemes of cars subject to change.

I compiled my list here after you and I answered a post the other day about 19 inch cars and the 4696 locomotive ( I really enjoyed your answers)    My thought was with a steam locomotive like the 4696 it certainly had to have pulled 19 inch cars, so now with what sets. As I said in a post above this was something to do on News Year Eve, and I hoped we could all have some fun with it.  

Happy New Year to you and your family

Frank

@LVfan posted:

Happy New Year to you and your family

Frank

Same to you! 🙂

Question for you American Flyer Wide gauge experts as I am new to American Flyer Wide Gauge. I have a three car set of the 19" cars in rolls royce blue but the nameplates above the windows say American Flyer Lines and not Presidents Special. Are these the 1933 New Minuteman cars? They have the truss under them and not the tanks.

The 1932-34 New Minute Man is the only set that had the brass truss rods on the Rolls Royce blue cars. The cars should have the Presidents Special plates also but who knows why your cars don’t have them. Perhaps they are later production and they ran out of the other plates. The engine should be a #4695 and the tender is #4693. Hope this helps.

Ed

Thanks for the response Ed! I found an article from tinplate times on Facebook American Flyer group about a set of trains that had the trucks converted so it could be run on outside third rail in the 30’s by William Walthers.

The set that is shown is the same as mine with the American Flyer Lines nameplates.

Post was by Leonard Carey Williams on Dec. 16, 2022. He posted an article from tinplates times with same date.

they showed the track system as part of the article. And Your right about the engine and tender.

thanks again!

@macdaddy posted:

Question for you American Flyer Wide gauge experts as I am new to American Flyer Wide Gauge. I have a three car set of the 19" cars in rolls royce blue but the nameplates above the windows say American Flyer Lines and not Presidents Special. Are these the 1933 New Minuteman cars? They have the truss under them and not the tanks.

Your cars are likely some of the latest cars produced.  As Ed mentioned, the conjecture is that Flyer was running out of plates.  

The very early cars (1928-29) are typically found with what one might describe as a catalog correct set of plates.  Meaning:  

"President Special" plates above the windows and one "name", one "American Flyer", and one "car descriptor/#" plate per side, with very little errors or variations other than employee errors (Flyer employees had a decent amount of trouble assembling things to be catalog correct in detail and errors are often found).

So a typically car side would be in the format of something like this:

                                               "PRESIDENT'S   SPECIAL"

"CLUB 4393"                             "WEST POINT"                                    "AMERICAN FLYER"

In the mid 1930's, Flyer was seemingly running out of plates and using whatever they had to make trains (conjecture), so changes are observed.  The "PRESIDENT SPECIAL" plates being to switch to "AMERICAN FLYER LINES", and the lower 3 start to become all 3 "PULLMAN" or "AMERICAN FLYER", or a smattering of some combination of whatever is left.  In some cases you might even find "PULLMAN" decals being used instead of a brass plate in that space.

The picture below is a set of late 4390 series cars sold at Stout's recently that would likely be considered as correct mid 1930's  "New Minuteman Cars" by collectors who study this stuff.  Just as another thing to add, not all cars with trusses are from steam sets.  trusses were sold in late electric sets as well.  The truss rod part was introduced in the 1931 catalog, but probably (again, conjecture)  didn't start appearing on the blue 19in. cars in exactly that year.

Thanks Ives1122  for posting the picture as that is the set I just acquired recently from the Stout auction.

There was an article in the Oct., 1990 issue of The Train Collectors Quarterly titled “Detail, Details, Details” where the authors attempted to date American Flyer production by the various trim, name/number plates, etc. Although no mention was made about the Presidents Special/American Flyer Lines plates, there was a quote that perfectly sums up American Flyer production. “American Flyer never produced the same item exactly the same way twice if they could help it.”

Ed

Hello all

Here is a link to see my 1933 Minuteman set running .

Modified to outside 3rd rail ...then back to center rail ..soon back to outside third rail.

Cheers Carey

https://youtu.be/_f5YJXGfEOA