American Freedom Train

Railfan Brody posted:

What was standard protocol for the Freedom Train?

Don't know what to mean.

I know it was a display train, but it also carried passenger cars. Were there passengers on the train? 

The "passenger cars" on the rear of the train were mainly for management staff and media representatives. There was also a "crew sleeper" for members of the train staff & security.

I heard stories that cab riders were frequent...VERY frequent, and abundant. I heard that it was like an NRHS convention in the cab.

Yes. I can speak from experience that there were as many as 10 EXTRA "visitors" in the cab of 4449, on more than one occasion. As Fireman, I could not see the Engineer, but he would signal me with a few taps on the air horn operating lever, and I could then tell by looking at the top of the throttle mechanism when he was reducing or increasing the throttle, plus the sound of the exhaust as he hooked her up.

Is there anyone that was on the crew roster, and for which locomotive?

4449 paid crew:  Doyle McCormack Chief Mechanical Officer & Engineer. Paid locomotive crew members: Andy Adams, Russ Shipman, Al Philips. Plus a host of various volunteers.

 

 

Hot Water posted:

Railfan Brody posted:

What was standard protocol for the Freedom Train?

Don't know what to mean.

I heard Ross Rowland say on a podcast say that he got to run the Freedom Train. I didn't know if he was referring to the T1, or all three locomotives, but mainly I meant who was the regular engineer and fireman. 

I know it was a display train, but it also carried passenger cars. Were there passengers on the train? 

The "passenger cars" on the rear of the train were mainly for management staff and media representatives. There was also a "crew sleeper" for members of the train staff & security.

I heard stories that cab riders were frequent...VERY frequent, and abundant. I heard that it was like an NRHS convention in the cab.

Yes. I can speak from experience that there were as many as 10 EXTRA "visitors" in the cab of 4449, on more than one occasion. As Fireman, I could not see the Engineer, but he would signal me with a few taps on the air horn operating lever, and I could then tell by looking at the top of the throttle mechanism when he was reducing or increasing the throttle, plus the sound of the exhaust as he hooked her up.

Who's idea was it to invite 10 guests into a confined cab of a steam locomotive at track speed? I'm surprised no one got burned from the firebox. If it was a coal fired locomotive, you could at least send them into the bunker to shovel coal into the stoker auger.

Is there anyone that was on the crew roster, and for which locomotive?

4449 paid crew:  Doyle McCormack Chief Mechanical Officer & Engineer. Paid locomotive crew members: Andy Adams, Russ Shipman, Al Philips. Plus a host of various volunteers.

 

 

 

Railfan Brody posted:

Hot Water posted:

Railfan Brody posted:

What was standard protocol for the Freedom Train?

Don't know what to mean.

I heard Ross Rowland say on a podcast say that he got to run the Freedom Train. I didn't know if he was referring to the T1, or all three locomotives, but mainly I meant who was the regular engineer and fireman. 

Ross Rowland ONLY operated the former Reading T1, AFT #1

I know it was a display train, but it also carried passenger cars. Were there passengers on the train? 

The "passenger cars" on the rear of the train were mainly for management staff and media representatives. There was also a "crew sleeper" for members of the train staff & security.

I heard stories that cab riders were frequent...VERY frequent, and abundant. I heard that it was like an NRHS convention in the cab.

Yes. I can speak from experience that there were as many as 10 EXTRA "visitors" in the cab of 4449, on more than one occasion. As Fireman, I could not see the Engineer, but he would signal me with a few taps on the air horn operating lever, and I could then tell by looking at the top of the throttle mechanism when he was reducing or increasing the throttle, plus the sound of the exhaust as he hooked her up.

Who's idea was it to invite 10 guests into a confined cab of a steam locomotive at track speed? I'm surprised no one got burned from the firebox. If it was a coal fired locomotive, you could at least send them into the bunker to shovel coal into the stoker auger.

Remember that 4449 is oil fired.  Why would ANYBODY get "burned from the firebox"?  The entire beachhead is all insulated and jacketed.

Is there anyone that was on the crew roster, and for which locomotive?

4449 paid crew:  Doyle McCormack Chief Mechanical Officer & Engineer. Paid locomotive crew members: Andy Adams, Russ Shipman, Al Philips. Plus a host of various volunteers.

 

Also, remember that things were different on the railroads more than 40 years ago, especially when it came to celebrating the nation's 200 birthday! 

This link gives a good story about the Freedom Train, how it was formed, the schedule for it, as well as some of the people behind it.

I was lucky enough to see the train in my hometown in Florida, a week before my 7^th birthday. I remember parts of it really well as it was the most impressive thing I ever saw up to that time.

The crew still has reunions. I was lucky enough to be able to attend part of the Portland 2016 one.

Note the forked topic in the post above.

This thread is for the discussion of the American Freedom Train, not diesel locomotives that were painted in various bi-centennial paint schemes.

Jack, were you on loan from EMD for the entire run of #4449, or did you have to come and go?

Dieselbob posted:

Jack, were you on loan from EMD for the entire run of #4449, or did you have to come and go?

No. I was assigned to the AFT by EMD/GM as liaison to the Chief Mechanical Officer, immediately upon the arrival of 4449 at the EMD McCook Plant for storage. At various times throughout the tour, whenever the locomotive crew needed "assistance", McCormack would apparently "request" my services through his GM Vice-President, and my pos would then explain to me what was needed and where.

 EMD/GM did "assigned" me to the Transcontinental Steam Excursion in the spring of 1977, to return 4449 to Portland, OR after the conclusion of the AFT tour. EMD also "assigned" me to the full time crew for the 1984 New Orleans Worlds Fair Daylight operation, from Portland to New Orleans and return.

Jack tells the whole story of his involvement with EMD and the 4449 crew in Great Layout Adventures, Volume 8.

We used a 3-camera setup so Jack I could just sit and talk about his days with EMD, the 4449 and lots of other things. He's got a fascinating story to tell...and he's fun to listen to!

Aw shucks. Thanks Rich, it was a LOT of fun.

Railfan Brody posted:

What was standard protocol for the Freedom Train? I know it was a display train, but it also carried passenger cars. Were there passengers on the train? 

I heard stories that cab riders were frequent...VERY frequent, and abundant. I heard that it was like an NRHS convention in the cab.

Is there anyone that was on the crew roster, and for which locomotive?

The train on the left is currently sitting outdoors in the parking lot at the B&O railroad museum in Baltimore, MD.  It's a little rusty, but doesn't look too bad.

Andy

Train_Geek posted:

The train on the left is currently sitting outdoors in the parking lot at the B&O railroad museum in Baltimore, MD.  It's a little rusty, but doesn't look too bad.

Andy

Actually THAT is a locomotive, as it was NOT connected to the Freedom Train, in that photo. That ceremony took place in the Chicago & North Western's Proviso Yard, just a bit west of Chicago. You can see Ross Rowland handing over the two American Flags to CMO Doyle McCormack, as the 4449 relieved AFT #1 from its duties hauling the AFT in the eastern states.

AFT #1 is indeed currently "rusting away" outside of the Baltimore and Ohio RR Museum .

p51 posted:

OGR Webmaster posted:

Note the forked topic in the post above.

This thread is for the discussion of the American Freedom Train, not diesel locomotives that were painted in various bi-centennial paint schemes.

No idea what you're talking about. Both links I posted were exactly for the topic, the 1975-76 freedom train, were you referring to a post that has since been removed?

Yes, he is/was referring to the post/posts by "TrainRoomGary", that were not related to the American Freedom Train subject. They have since been removed/relocated.

Trains Magazine September 2016 had an excellent article on the AFT.

AmbBob posted:

Trains Magazine September 2016 had an excellent article on the AFT.

Yes, as it was related to the 40th anniversary of the completion of the AFT tour, in Miami, FL on December 31, 1976.

1975-1976 American Freedom Train 

Now it is turning into rust.

The 1975-1976 American Freedom Train.  More specifically, the first of three steam locomotives that pulled the train during the two years that it crisscrossed the lower 48 states during the American Bicentennial Celebration of 1976. This locomotive being the former Reading Company 4-8-4 #2101.

I would like see Michael J. Ward, CEO at CSX Transportation, get involved with a restoration project to safe this Freedom Train.

Gary: Rail-fan                                                      and

OGR Webmaster posted:

Jack tells the whole story of his involvement with EMD and the 4449 crew in Great Layout Adventures, Volume 8.

We used a 3-camera setup so Jack I could just sit and talk about his days with EMD, the 4449 and lots of other things. He's got a fascinating story to tell...and he's fun to listen to!

You just sold a copy....   

OGR Webmaster posted:

Jack tells the whole story of his involvement with EMD and the 4449 crew in Great Layout Adventures, Volume 8.

We used a 3-camera setup so Jack I could just sit and talk about his days with EMD, the 4449 and lots of other things. He's got a fascinating story to tell...and he's fun to listen to!

I can completely agree with Rich, the interview was great and the story was fascinating...I highly recommend getting this....worth every penny.

1. Official hardcover book published 1976
2. My ticket
3. AFT parked at WM RY station in Cumberland,MD.

trainroomgary posted:

1975-1976 American Freedom Train 

Now it is turning into rust.

The 1975-1976 American Freedom Train.  More specifically, the first of three steam locomotives that pulled the train during the two years that it crisscrossed the lower 48 states during the American Bicentennial Celebration of 1976. This locomotive being the former Reading Company 4-8-4 #2101.

I would like see Michael J. Ward, CEO at CSX Transportation, get involved with a restoration project to safe this Freedom Train.

I don't think an operational restoration will EVER happen. In 1979, Reading 2101 was badly damaged in a roundhouse fire after the 1978 "Chessie Steam Specials" excursion season. The locomotive could have been restored, but Ross Rowland put it like this: "Think about when you have a car accident and you total your car. You can fix it and make it run again, but you'll always think in the back of your head, 'Did I get everything?' We decided that we didn't want to have that risk with 20 loaded passenger cars at track speed, so we cosmetically restored 2101 to her AFT appearance, and traded her to the B&O Museum for C&O 614."

Does anyone happen to have a picture of the Freedom Train in Fort Wayne, Indiana? I would greatly appreciate it if you could post it if you have one.

Borden Tunnel posted:

1. Official hardcover book published 1976
2. My ticket
3. AFT parked at WM RY station in Cumberland,MD.

I wish I'd kept my ticket, but didn't. I do still have the program my parents got me, though.

As for the hardcover book, I found a good copy off eBay a few years ago and at the Portland reunion, got Doyle and Ross to sign it. I'd talked with Doyle a few times over the years but had never met Ross before the 40th reunion.

Railfan Brody posted:

I don't think an operational restoration will EVER happen. In 1979, Reading 2101 was badly damaged in a roundhouse fire after the 1978 "Chessie Steam Specials" excursion season. The locomotive could have been restored, but Ross Rowland put it like this: "Think about when you have a car accident and you total your car. You can fix it and make it run again, but you'll always think in the back of your head, 'Did I get everything?' We decided that we didn't want to have that risk with 20 loaded passenger cars at track speed, so we cosmetically restored 2101 to her AFT appearance, and traded her to the B&O Museum for C&O 614."

Nobody can blame Ross for that. Trading a Reading T-1 for a C&O Greenbriar with roller bearings and overall a far more modern locomotive? Who would agonize over that, knowing whatever he did, Ross was in for a complete overhaul in either case?

Hot Water,

Did you fire the Freedom train?  If so, were you on it when it came to San Francisco?  I have a great photo of it stopped at Aquatic Park (near Fisherman's Wharf).

Matt

p51 posted:

Railfan Brody posted:

I don't think an operational restoration will EVER happen. In 1979, Reading 2101 was badly damaged in a roundhouse fire after the 1978 "Chessie Steam Specials" excursion season. The locomotive could have been restored, but Ross Rowland put it like this: "Think about when you have a car accident and you total your car. You can fix it and make it run again, but you'll always think in the back of your head, 'Did I get everything?' We decided that we didn't want to have that risk with 20 loaded passenger cars at track speed, so we cosmetically restored 2101 to her AFT appearance, and traded her to the B&O Museum for C&O 614."

Nobody can blame Ross for that. Trading a Reading T-1 for a C&O Greenbriar with roller bearings and overall a far more modern locomotive? Who would agonize over that, knowing whatever he did, Ross was in for a complete overhaul in either case?

I wasn't trying to blame Ross, though it may have came off that way. 

In fact, in a weird sort of way, I'm glad 2101 was damaged, because I absolutely adore 614. I mean, if you think about it, if the T1 was never damaged, than 614 would have never pulled 100 car coal drags through the New River Gorge. 

boin106 posted:

Hot Water,

Did you fire the Freedom train?

No, but I DID Fire 4449.

 If so, were you on it when it came to San Francisco?

No, but I was in the Sacramento-Stockton area. However, I was on the entire 1984 New Orleans Worlds Fair Daylight trip, including the stay in San Francisco. Some of us were just returning from supper on Fisherman's Wharf, and happen to notice that one of the huge warehouses was on fire. The San Francisco Fire Dept. hadn't even arrived yet. We parked and hung around and watch the show, until it finally got so hot that we had to get in our cars and leave. It was a truly HUGE fire and could be seen from all over the higher ground of the city. It obviously made the TV news THAT night!

 I have a great photo of it stopped at Aquatic Park (near Fisherman's Wharf).

Matt

Hopefully somebody has some photos of the AFT visit to Fort Wayne.  The train was parked in the INTERSTATE INDUSTRIAL PARK on the south side of I-69.  The train was east of of the former PRR, GR&I line.   Interesting way that the train got there:  the previous stop was Archbold, Ohio, on the former NYC Water Level Route.  The AFT proceeded west to the turning loop at Elkhart and then doubled back east to the still-extant-at-that-time PRR south of Kendallville.  The connections at Kendallville and into the Industrial Park were orientated so that the train was pointed east for exhibition.  The consist was cut and the exhibit train was shoved east.  No. 1 was parked to the west of the train - but pointed east.  When done, the train proceeded downtown and was handed off to the N&W.  It traveled the WAB main to points northeast of Fort Wayne.  I was the "site manager" for the city, a volunteer position, but it was good experience for adventures yet to come with the NKP 765.

Hot Water posted:

Train_Geek posted:

The train on the left is currently sitting outdoors in the parking lot at the B&O railroad museum in Baltimore, MD.  It's a little rusty, but doesn't look too bad.

Andy

Actually THAT is a locomotive, as it was NOT connected to the Freedom Train, in that photo. That ceremony took place in the Chicago & North Western's Proviso Yard, just a bit west of Chicago. You can see Ross Rowland handing over the two American Flags to CMO Doyle McCormack, as the 4449 relieved AFT #1 from its duties hauling the AFT in the eastern states.

It's a handoff ceremony, but the one shown in the photo is in Birmingham, Alabama, in May 1976, when AFT 1 took over from 4449. That green awning in the right edge of the photo is part of the small building that replaced Terminal Station, which was in the area where the cars in the background are parked. 

This is where my family went through the Freedom Train. Both locomotives were on display the day we were there.

There was one more handoff (from AFT 1 back to 4449) in Arlington, VA, in September.

645 posted:

trainroomgary posted:

 

The 1975-1976 American Freedom Train.  More specifically, the first of three steam locomotives that pulled the train during the two years that it crisscrossed the lower 48 states during the American Bicentennial Celebration of 1976. This locomotive being the former Reading Company 4-8-4 #2101.

I would like see Michael J. Ward, CEO at CSX Transportation, get involved with a restoration project to safe this Freedom Train.

Gary

Mr. Ward is retiring from CSXT on May 31, 2017. You should ask Mr. Harrison this request if he gets to be the CEO of CSXT. 

Confusing statement, "....with a restoration project to safe this Freedom Train."   

First, what is unsafe about it?      Second, it is NOT the "Freedom Train", but one of the three steam locomotives that PULLED the American Freedom Train.

Lastly, in my opinion, I seriously doubt that ANYBODY at CSX really gives a crap about that locomotive, as they have far bigger concerns!

When the Freedom Train came through Trenton, NJ, I was in the Civil Air Patrol and our unit worked the Freedom Train Event.  I was 13.  It is a fond memory.  I wish I still had the pictures I took.  I never saw the train under power though.

Love the stories here.

TM Books Videos

Like to learn more about the Freedom Train, one of our fellow member has an excellent video, Joe Stachler, Professional Videographer.

We have a gorgeous model of the American Freedom Train, footage of the real train, and a new song, American Freedom Train, by Jim Coffey. A segment on 1930’s streamliners includes the UP M10,000, Burlington Zephyr and Hiawatha. See the PPR’s DD-1 Electric, an operating layout with trains over 100 years old, and a Modern Era Lionel layout. 900 Miles.

Gary: Rail-fan

That young fellow pictured is Tom McComas' son who is all grown up now. A lot of people come into the store with children who think he's still a kid. When he's there, he'll sign a autograph for the kids though I think their kinda disappointed he's grown. Real nice guy just like his dad. He narrates on a few DVD's.