Amtrak Acela Returns to Roster What do you Think?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11...tml?pagewanted=print

That noise is played back as the four-car train makes its rounds.

So how real is the little QB? Mr. Calabrese answered by telling a story: On Lionel’s version of Amtrak’s Acela, the doors, brakes and pantographs — which connect the train to electrical wires overhead — break down at about the same rate as on the real thing.

He said that not long ago, he was a passenger on an Acela train that had to pull over because a pantograph had broken. “I offered to send in some of our people to help,” he said. The Amtrak crew members, however, “weren’t in a joking mood.”

I was going to post the same question myself but under the heading "I'm sure you'll think I'm crazy but . . . "

However, I am seriously thinking of going for this new issue of the advanced but ill-fated Acela if somebody from Lionel (or a dealer who can find out) will answer a few questions (the dealer who answers first gets my order if I go for it):

1.  What are the differences (if any) between the software controlling the new model and the original? A Legacy CAB-2 has Acela controls built in but unfortunately on shutdown the pantographs don't automatically retract as they do under CAB-1 control. I assume that the new one will come with a Legacy module but is there any other difference? It's also advertised as having a quilling horn and I assume that means there's been some software revision.

2.  But this is just part of a more general question, which is exactly how far the operating issues of the original have been addressed. There's no tilt feature in the new model, which I assume means that it was thought too problematic to rectify. Fine - if that cures other problems.  (I wouldn't miss the tilt feature as I could not detect any tilt in my set except in "demo" mode while it was standing still, when the tilt and accompanying sound worked perfectly.) As for other problems, I have the original set and the add-on passenger cars. Three out of the six cars had operating difficulties straight out of the box, mainly to do with failing to reset properly once the door opening feature was operated, leading to the lights under the doors flashing to signal that a reset was required. A reset however just never worked and it's very unsatisfactory having to lock out the door opening feature on one side of the car to stop the lights flashing.

3.  The catalog description does not refer to the cars having the door lights which illuminate when the doors open, which is a neat feature; has that gone too?

4.  If you look very closely at the catalog illustrations one of them appears to show that the couplers are the same as in the original, which absent some other improvement in the model is not good news, IMHO.  The couplers were said to be the source of about 80% of Acela operating problems. I think that unless you have a large and dead level permanent layout on which to run this beast the coupler alignment and the infrared contact through it is bound to fail at some point. I once had the wild idea of trying to replace all of them with Lionel steam engine wireless tethers, which I have never had a problem with. I never got that far with trying to get the whole set to run consistently.

5.  Are the cars in the new add-on pack compatible with the original sets? If so I might get a reliable five-car consist going although I guess that the tilt feature in the original cars would have to be locked out even if it does not work when the train is in motion.

6.  Generally my worry is that the new model is a reissue with the tilt mechanism removed or just disabled but nothing in the way of real improvements.  Pity as the passenger cars are otherwise hands down the best modern ones I have ever seen in O gauge, including GGD's 3-rail offerings to date.

7.  Anybody who would shell out for the new version of the Acela must be a dedicated Lionel fan so there's good reason why updated and detailed info about this model should be volunteered by Lionel now at the pre-order stage.

Hancock52,

Those are great and very valid questions. The detailing on the interior of the cars was incredible. The sound set was one of the very best I have heard on a model train set. However it made a better static display than it did a model train.

Scott Smith

How about an o-31 or o-36 version?

A question.....Am I correct that the original set had 5 units and then a 3 unit add-on came later for a total of 8 units.  That would be two end units and 6 cars???

Also, I though Lionel made a big deal out of saying that only 2000 sets of the Acela would ever be produced.  Perhaps I misunderstood or misread something into that statement....

Thanks,

Alan

To me the livery Amtrak used on them make them look like the Ugcela!

Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.

P.S. The original set did have front and rear engines and three passenger cars and the add-on set was three more cars for an eight unit train. I have seen one in operation (not mine) and it was impressive to say the least. But then hope springs eternal . . .

They will still only have produced 2,000 sets with the tilt feature.

I am still spooked from the last one, many friends had this and it was a real PIA. If Lionel wants this to sell, they really should include language in the catalog that explains what has been improved since the first issue.

Fortunately, the Acela I have matches the room colors in my family room; so there it sits on a track-shelf above the flat screen.

So unless the newer one matches some other room colors, I think that one is more than enough for me!

Other considerations did not allow me to mount the remaining cars.

 ""If Lionel wants this to sell, they really should include language in the catalog that explains what has been improved since the first issue.""

Too bad Legacy does not have the ability of P-2 & DCS so the cars could act independant of each other similar to the MTH Coors set..

Past problems would all be solved.

Joe

PIA indeed. I think that I'll ask Lionel what differences there are.  A special commendation goes to whoever guesses what point I have NOT mentioned above that would be likely to reveal whether this is substantially a re-hash of the original or not.

Several people who have the set absolutely love it. Some have sent it back for repairs and had trouble free operation ever since. A fellow I know, upon seeing the set being re-released is ordering a second set just to have two passing each other in opposite directions at speed. 

If you have a layout to accommodate the size, there are folks who will chime in here and say they have had few, if any problems and run the set regularly. I don't think it was designed to run in a circle. 

Time will tell.

Edited to fix a typo

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good luck with that...

Fred

I wish I had the funds and the turn diameters for that thing...

I would guess 3-rail track running from DC to Boston would cost a fortune!

I had the set and it was a nightmare. Sent back 4 times and it kept breaking down. Finally traded it off. I would not buy the new one on a bet. It was great when it ran and that was almost never.

Call me crazy, but if I can come up with the funds, I'm in! (the trick however, is still coming up with the funds!)

I would be a past owner who would consider the new set, if and only if, issues I had with the consist were resolved.  I really liked the set and I am crazy but I would purchase it again.

In direct answer to your question in the order that came to mind

• Here we go again
• I feel sorry for the guys who got stuck last time
• I feel sorry for the guys who (might) get stuck this time
• No way I'm buying one now
• Glad I didn't buy one then.

As Forrest Gump would say "and that's all I have to say about that"...

Gilly

There is only one Amtrak Genesis Phase III diesel that I really care to own. It can be a Dummy as I really have no real expectation of it really doing anything productive. My reasons are purely nefarious, and non-politically correct.... 

I will pass on the new issue because I own a perfectly functioning original that I have had operating without a hiccup for periods of months on end. My sample was featured in TM's Lionel Nation 2. In the beginning, some teething issues did have to be sorted out and it requires some attention to one's trackwork (e.g., S curves are a no-no). But, Glory be! In all my years in the hobby, I have never had visitors 'go so crazy' over any train set as they do when they see the ACELA operate. However, folks need to realize that the ACELA is not a Scout set, if you get my drift.

This topic thread should be fun to watch.

Bob Bubeck

"My sample was featured in TM's Lionel Nation 2. In the beginning, some teething issues did have to be sorted out and it requires some attention to one's trackwork (e.g., S curves are a no-no). But, Glory be! In all my years in the hobby, I have never had visitors 'go so crazy' over any train set as they do when they see the ACELA operate."

For the benefit of the rest of us, who are still hopeful, can you share what the issues were and how they were dealt with? Don't bother about S curves as I can see why . . .

Congrats Bob--I think you got the 1 of the 2000 that worked. Another thing that does concerns me was the fact Lionel said in the original catalog the Acela was a super limited edition. The original catalog said "don't miss your one shot at this Pinnacle of Lionel innovation and quality." "One shot", they lead us to believe it would not be produced again.

"Quality"-I DON'T THINK SO! Enron was more honest with their stock holders than Lionel was about their Acela.
Scott Smith

"Another thing that does concerns me was the fact Lionel said in the original catalog the Acela was a super limited edition. The original catalog said "don't miss your one shot at this Pinnacle of Lionel innovation and quality." "One shot", they lead us to believe it would not be produced again.

"Quality"-I DON'T THINK SO! Enron was more honest with their stock holders than Lionel was about their Acela."

Look at it this way..one thousand nine hundred ninety nine trusting folks just like you fell for it so you're not alone.

Call it creative marketing skills.

Joe 

Don't sell the ones you have UNTIL we see if this one is produced or cancelled.  I got a hunch there will not be enough people with the funds or suitably-sized layouts on which to run the Acelas.  I feel Scott's criticism should be tempered by the facts his office layout is too small for this train, and that he paid almost twice the going rate for same(immediate cause of BUYERS REMORSE).  To say Bob Bubek's train is the only one of 2000 that operates correctly is LUDICROUS.  As far as the ONE SHOT promise, do you really think Lionel invested in this new technology to make a single run??? I doubt it!!!  Perhaps, the door problems are fixed as a result of recent Lionel Subway trains.  Finally, if you owned Lionel, would you advertize a new product in a negative manner by saying this one is not as bad as the last one???

First I own the original set which has never seen the rails and I personally have not seen one operate in person. And I can't believe that it can be worst then Ice Cold Express which I did not get a decent set until the 3rd one. I do not have any room for even a 4' x 8' layout and I consider myself an operator as opposed as a collector. And I did not have the Acela in time for me to operate it on a giant public display that I designed and helped build and the last time that I did that was in 2005. The last one had a 120' main line which had O84 curves.

On a different thread about the Motor City set I posted about Lionel maybe putting their new self-adjust drawbar that they used on their Milwaukee Road S-3 engine and tender which automatically allows the tender and engine to increase in the distance between the two when they go into a curve. A very simple design that I feel could be used on all of these cars. And without the tilt control feature this system can be used and it would allow for a very easy way to connect the cars together as opposed to the way that they connected on the original set. This would allow for a very do able set. I still plan to purchase the new one.

Paul

With a pre-order price of just over $1700 for both the main set and the add-on set, if I didn't just buy a 3rd Rail T-3 and have the GGD aluminum cars on order, I just might be tempted to order one!

Jim

Bit like Ford re-releasing the Edsel.

"One shot", they lead us to believe it would not be produced again.

For this reason alone, it would not matter what Lionel might say about fixing previous faults, you just can't believe what they tell you. Very dishonest marketing.

 1) I paid retail for my Acela and add-on set. That is not twice the going rate,,my dealer does not discount.

2) There was no indication in Lionel's advertising that the train required more than O-72 or needed 6 feet of straight track before the curves. The catalog said O-72--I made the mistake in believing them.

3) I just quoted what the catalog said...in my world words mean things. The catalog said "don't miss your one shot".

I will agree with you on your point about Bob Bubeck's Acela--I doubt he was the only one that didn't have issues--yes it was an exaggeration; however the majority of people had issues with the Acela. How do I know Jerry C. told us in the New York Times " Lionel’s version of Amtrak’s Acela, the doors, brakes and pantographs — which connect the train to electrical wires overhead — break down at about the same rate as on the real thing."

I will agree that Lionel can't advertise it as This one won't suck as much as the last one we made. However they can advertise it as improved operational reliability or redesigned for better operational experience. It should be better Lionel several years ago told me at York that they about had just about finished their Acela coupler redesign and they were going to recall the set. Much of the work for improving it was done years ago..the thing is none of us who bought it were going to benefit from the redesign since they changed their mind about the recall.

Scott Smith

Thanks Dave that's my point they are not and have not been honest about this set. Funny thing is the 2004 Catalog Vol. 1 has been cleansed on-line--the pictures were removed and the words including "one shot" has been removed. I don't know when this was changed here is the original page.

Scott Smith

I respect your opinions Scott...you had a bad experience.  I've wrongfully teased you about the Acela in the past...and I apologize.  I bought at Auction House at price where I can live with things.  I was an Engineman for Amtrak well before the Acela, but my heart is still "out there" on the Main Line.  When I see the Acela whiz by my truck, it takes me back 30 years.  That probably makes no sense to you guys, but this TOY represents more to me than to any of you.  And, I salute Lionel for introducing Technology that  probably was not quite ready for PRIME TIME!!! Respectfully, Ron B.

I trust your comments on the Acela Scott,And you have alot of people that actually have bought and fought with this train. They should of made you happy seeing that you are the ones who keep them going.

I'm guessing you knew what I meant when I said it probably wasn't designed to run in a circle.

Frankly, I think Lionel is, yet again, focusing more attention on NE Corridor Amtrak than, well, Amtrak. Yes the Acela is awesome, but the past several years of Lionel's Amtrak products have been nothing but northeast-themed stuff. How many people get REAL excited about Acela, especially with the previous releases' problems? Why can't Lionel make more nation-wide oriented Amtrak rolling stock/locomotives, like the Genesis, F40, Horzion Fleet, Viewliners, as well as Superliners and the Dash 8 (both of which Lionel already has the tooling for but hasn't touched for 7-8 years), or even regional trains like the Pacific Surfliner or Cascades. Not to mention all of the historic equipment like E's and F's, the SDP40F and P30CH, and the heritage fleet cars. There are tons of options, but all Lionel ever seems to care about is modern northeastern Amtrak. I don't have a problem with them releasing the Acela again, but please, make some stuff that more of us would likely buy based on what goes through our part of the US.

"" I think Lionel is, yet again, focusing more attention on NE Corridor Amtrak than, well, Amtrak""

Amazing you've never heard of MTH.

All your dreams and then some would have been happily fulfilled years ago.

Joe

Some people prefer Lionel over MTH. I have tons of both but I prefer Lionel, especially the command/Legacy locomotives.

It'll be interesting to see how well the new Acela sells.

I can't help but think that this Acela set would sell much better with LESS features. 

My eyes are not what they used to be but,

I don't see anything in the posted catalog page that says this is a one time good deal and will never be offered again.   I only see something that says blah, blah, blah for this super limited run of 2000 blah, blah, blah.

Marketing is the art of saying absolutely nothing but making you think otherwise.   "super limited" here has no meaning whatsoever other that what you attach to it.