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Just a few questions.  Prior to the recent upgrades, was it CTC..or only CTC on the heavy commuter end near Philly and TWC on the rest?  I recall a 1990's Pentrex tape showing the room in Philly where the Harrisburg Line was dispatched by manual track warrant control.

 

I assume now it is fully CTC and bi-directional?  Were any tracks removed during the recent upgrade?

 

Some areas of the line west of Lancaster appear to have only been double track?  And the catenanry looks completely new as if it were not electrified until recently.  Any insight into this?

 

Was this line essentially the same 4 track PRR main that goes through Altoona, Horseshoe Curve, etc?  When was all the freight moved off of it and the Reading line favored?

Last edited by Mike W.
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Mike:

 

I can address a couple of your questions.  First off, this line was mostly four tracks from Overbrook to the Conestoga River bridge about a mile or two east of Lancaster station.  There were areas where, for example, the Atglen Low Grade line joined it that the number of tracks would expand to 6. 

 

Between Lancaster and Royalton, the line was two tracks.  Most heavy freights used either the Atglen Low Grade from Parkesburg or took the double track line to Columbia that branched off the Harrisburg line at Cork Tower, just west of Lancaster station.

 

Conrail used the Atglen line for a while before deciding to use the former Reading as the principle freight route between Harrisburg and points to the east.  I believe this occurred in the late 1970's / early 1980's.  The track was eventually pulled up on the Atglen Low Grade and I understand parts of it are now a hike/bike trail.

 

The PRR had reduced the number of tracks between Parkesburg and Lancaster in the 1960's.  Under Penn Central, Conrail and now Amtrak, this line has been double track.  There was a short section of multiple track left in place from the west end of the Conestoga River bridge, through the Lancaster station and to Cork Tower, most of which was still in place until the past few years.

 

I can't answer your question regarding CTC and bi-directional operation but, would assume that is now the case.

 

Curt

The former PRR Main Line was never really a major carrier of through freight, except for east of Parkesburg, where the low grade was merged with the Main Line as a 4 track railroad.  While freights to North Jersey diverged onto the P&T branch at Thorndale, relieving the Main Line of a large portion of its freight traffic, those bound for Philly stayed on the Main Line.  Ironically, this meant freight had to mix with commuter trains for the 20 plus miles west of Philly, but was on its own right of way in the bucolic farmland to the west.  A low grade line for freights to Philly was planned in the early 20th century that would follow the Darby Creek to the 52nd street freight yards from the Frazier area (site of Septa's shops just west of Paoli) but was never completed due to high land acquisition costs and improved signaling that raised the capacity of the Main Line.  As mentioned above, some through freights did travel all the way west to Cork (Lancaster) on the Main Line, before diverging onto the Columbia secondary to head to Enola.  I also believe some trailer trains and other fast freights used the Main Line all the way to Harrisburg Terminal on a regular basis.

 

As for tracks, four were maintained all the way to Cork (Lancaster) and two to the west at the height of the Pennsy's traffic levels.  Cork to Parkesburg was cut from four to two tracks in the early 60's, and it wasn't long before decreasing levels of traffic led to Thorndale to Glen Lock being cut back to three tracks.  As through freight was removed from the Main Line in the 80's, more tracks were removed leaving the line with only three tracks west of Paoli, two tracks west of Parkesburg, but still with four tracks east of Paoli.  The line retained this configuration for decades, although some tracks were in poor condition and rarely used.  Presently (if it hasn't happened already) upgrades to the route will remove the dilapidated third track between Paoli and Parkesburg.  In summary: today the route has four tracks east of Paoli, and two tracks west to Harrisburg. 

 

As for catenary, Philly to Paoli was electrified in 1915, and west of there in the 30's.  I believe most of it is original, although Amtrak would like to replace the 1915 structures in the near future.  Of great interest to me - since I lived along the line in the 80's - was the fact that late in this decade the catenary was in such bad repair west of Parkesburg that it was in effect out of service, and Amtrak had to use diesels on its Harrisburg trains. 

 

With regards to towers, I'm not sure if any are left operating.  The Main Line was a holdout for towers in the 80's and 90's, with many of them controlling traffic as they had in Pennsy days.  Although the Main Line had many tracks, most of them were only signaled in one direction (251 territory in NORAC), so, capacity was limited.  This was especially a problem between Royalton and Parkesburg, where Cork in Lancaster was the only controlled crossover location.  During track work hand thrown crossovers with manned temporary block stations would have to be used to run traffic, slowing trains in this high speed territory. 

Last edited by Glenn Fresch

Mike:

 

I have an old video shot from the head end of an Amtrak train operating between Philadelphia and Harrisburg in 1985.  Many of the catenary poles between Lancaster and Royalton were cantilever at that time. 

 

And the line was block signaling with both waysides and cab signals governing movement.  Waysides were located at roughly two mile intervals.  Additionally, locomotives operating over former PRR lines had a cab signal response system whereby if the train speed exceeded that allowed by restrictive signal indications, a siren would sound in the cab.  If the engineer failed to reduce his speed to that permitted by the indication within a certain amount of time, the train would automatically be placed into emergency and stop. 

 

Curt

Mike:

 

I have an old video shot from the head end of an Amtrak train operating between Philadelphia and Harrisburg in 1985.  Many of the catenary poles between Lancaster and Royalton were cantilever at that time. 

 

And the line was block signaling with both waysides and cab signals governing movement.  Waysides were located at roughly two mile intervals.  Additionally, locomotives operating over former PRR lines had a cab signal response system whereby if the train speed exceeded that allowed by restrictive signal indications, a siren would sound in the cab.  If the engineer failed to reduce his speed to that permitted by the indication within a certain amount of time, the train would automatically be placed into emergency and stop. 

 

Curt

If train speed was not reduced to the limits set by Cab Signal indication A penalty Application of the brakes would occur. The application was applied at the service rate of airflow and not an Emergency application.

Still curious why the Pentrex video showed a room in 30th Street where dispatchers were plotting train orders for the Harrisburg Line...if it had CTC.  Or were all switches then controlled by towers along the line?

 

Also, the new ground signals at the Lancaster station look to have old signal heads...did they reuse what was mounted over the track?  Or are the signals on the ground up and down the line original?  I thought they sat over the track at one time...but it has been more than 20 years ago when I saw the Harrisburg Line.

 

The catenary at Rheems Interlocking looks new to me. 

Last edited by Mike W.
That is cool.  Wonder why others didn't pick this tech up.  Its like Postivie Train Control way ahead of its time.
 
Originally Posted by Forest:

Mike:

 

I have an old video shot from the head end of an Amtrak train operating between Philadelphia and Harrisburg in 1985.  Many of the catenary poles between Lancaster and Royalton were cantilever at that time. 

 

And the line was block signaling with both waysides and cab signals governing movement.  Waysides were located at roughly two mile intervals.  Additionally, locomotives operating over former PRR lines had a cab signal response system whereby if the train speed exceeded that allowed by restrictive signal indications, a siren would sound in the cab.  If the engineer failed to reduce his speed to that permitted by the indication within a certain amount of time, the train would automatically be placed into emergency and stop. 

 

Curt

If train speed was not reduced to the limits set by Cab Signal indication A penalty Application of the brakes would occur. The application was applied at the service rate of airflow and not an Emergency application.

 

Originally Posted by Forest:
If train speed was not reduced to the limits set by Cab Signal indication A penalty Application of the brakes would occur. The application was applied at the service rate of airflow and not an Emergency application.
 
Forest:
As a fellow native of Lewistown, I'll yield to your expertise on this subject.  As I recollect, you were an engineer for Conrail over former PRR lines and would absolutely be more familiar with the cab signal response system than I.
 
Curt
 

 

Last edited by juniata guy
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