Amtrak (new) locomotive news

They're certainly not very pretty. 

I sort of like it, even though it has an insect type face.  Although electric is efficient, too bad they could not use the plentiful methane that comes out of Capital Hill to run these.

Definitely European. Not sure how I like them, but I am not much of an modern AMTRAK fan

What struck me was the fact that these are replacements for the AME7 locomotives that are only a little over a decade old. Yes, they have about a 1,000 (+) more horsepower, etc, but looking at the price tag of the purchases bought through a FRA loan, I could not help myself from thinking about the comparative lifespan of the GG1, and I am not being critical, but rather puzzled, as to why to their predecessors had such a short life. 

If you want to answer your question, consider the relative paths of the freight railroads, which have been privately owned since the mid 1980s, and Amtrak, which continues to be government owned and run in large measure. 

BINGO!  Not surprised the govt would throw money at an enterprise that continuously loses money.  Back in 2009...41 of Amtrack's 44 routes lost money and subsidies equaled $32 per passenger.  It loses money...will always lose money....and shedding 10 year old locos for the latest and greatest will ensure it never makes money.

Keystone... Now the latter part of your comment was funny thanks for the good chuckle.

$oo

So, prior to the mid-1980s, freight railroads weren't privately owned??

I really like the looks of the new locomotive. I hope that Amtrak ridership will continue to increase so we can all enjoy passenger rail service for a long time.

Me too - and the GG-1 was nice too.

That sentence is like saying, I really like eating snot... and steak tastes great too!

/Mitch

Whatever. So much for a positive comment on this thread.

It's funny, I've read few complaints about the esthetics of similar European design locomotives on the 3-rail side.

Personally, I don't think it looks too bad.  The era of sculpted locomotives like the GG-1 is past.  Besides, railfans and model railroaders have complained about ever new locomotive Amtrak ever had going back to the SDP40F's in the old days.  This is the current state of the design art and whether we like it or not doesn't really matter.  

What matters is that the locomotives perform well for Amtrak.  That is what they will be judged by.

Rusty

It's not fair to compare any diesel or electric locomotive to the GG-1.  The GG-1 is one of those designs that just looks "right" -- looks like what it is and what it is meant to be -- powerful, fast, forward-looking.  It is very rare for any piece of engineered machinery to look just right like the GG-1 does.  These aren't bad looking locomotives, but they are built for numbers crunchers, not for people who love machinery and trains.  They are no-doubt impressive on paper and soul-less in execution.

A defense of the AEM-7.  The G's basically ran for 40 years.  The toasters (AEM-7's) are working on about 30 years.  That's actually a pretty good run, if you ask me.  I read once that the average toaster made 2.5 trips per day between DC and NYC before the electric was extended north to Boston.  

While the G's routinely ran at 80-90 mph and sometimes would hit 100.  The AEM-7's routinely hit 110 mph and often 125 mph.  The AEM-7 has more continuous horsepower than the G.

Add in that original replacement for the G was the E-60 which was always limited in speed and the "heavy" replacement, the HH-8 hasn't been a success (they can't keep them running).  I hope the replacements are as reliable as the toasters.  The word in the area is the Hippos will be the first to go, followed by the oldest toasters.

Clearly the G's were great engines, but a good read of any history shows they were really pushed at the end... especially the frames... while they waited the replacement for the less than successful E-60... the AEM-7.  

While they aren't the prettiest thing around, they do grow on you!  And they look cool in the snow!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qD3T68uAYck

I do hope a couple get saved.  I hope at least one is picked up by a museum along the NEC and kept operational with the hope of perhaps running it a few years from now.

Bob Bunge

One quick comment about the new locomotives... I wonder if they are using the same American flag decal as the UP does!

Bob

quote:

I sort of like it, even though it has an insect type face

From that angle, yes. Head on, it looks pretty mean to me

I kinda like it. It seems to have disproportionately long overhangs , but if its to keep the engineer safe, then I'm all for it.

Well, there we go helping the import imbalance when a company exists in the US with approvals already.

This ARR's DMU led to this, which is now this...US Railcar...125mph, safety frame, fuel efficient.

Oh well, I guess since they build the Siemen's here, it's almost ok.

Very cool looking hardware! Thanks for the link to the article.

It's different for sure, but it definetly has an "attitude" about it...I like it.

Chris

As I said in the very same post quoted:

"The era of sculpted locomotives like the GG-1 is past."

Rusty

It can be ughly if it saves energy as was noted.

Among the improvements in the new locomotives are computers that can diagnose  problems in real time and take corrective action and a braking system capable of  generating 100 percent of the energy it uses back to the electric grid --  similar to the way a hybrid automobile's motor acts as a generator when braking,  according to Michael Cahill, CEO for Siemens Rail Systems. That could produce  energy savings of up to $300 million over 20 years, the company estimates
Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/st...87395/#ixzz2TGWSdg2x

Could save? $300mil\20=$15mil\yr -not even a drop in the power bucket-notice that they don't mention how many kw or mw is returned-using that technology with all electric cars only extends the range to ~175 miles-very expensive technology

That won't even cover the interest on the cost of upgrading the electrical system in the N.E. Corridor(p.2 of the story)

Just some green fluff sales buzz to make everyone feel good. It obviously works!

Here is another savings article.  Interesting for those with Hybrid or EV's.  Not large amounts of energy, but then we could put a new coat of paint on the GG1's and let them run the eastern corridore another 20 years.

I agree with Rusty on an era of stream styling having passed, and one strong possibility is the lack of Class One passenger competition and the subsequent need to set one road apart from another in a sort of styling competition, in the form of rolling advertising that demonstrates "modernism". The new loco looks like one of those mobile hot food vans, that brings to mind the criticism by old steam hands that compared newfangled diesels to streetcars. I think this aspect of the new locos brings to mind the lost art of bright, colorful diesel schemes, which now are in short supply. 

I think those color schemes in the premerger days were the flag of the road, and tried to be unique, whereas the financial condition of the road on a downhill slide seemed to be more easier to maintain monochrome colors. I think CSX is about as faceless as you can get. At least NS has that great horse logo.

Seeing that all the surviving GG1's have had their transformers removed, that's not very likey. 

The GG1 was a product of its time, just as these new Siemen's locomotives are a product of the present time.

Rusty

Brings to mind that Amtrak originally wanted new GG1's at their inception but could not find a manufacturer for the frames.

The E-60s could run fast but they yawed and pitched so they had to keep them under 90 mph.

Strange, that no body states that the Interstate Highway System, outside ot the few places where there are tolls, makes NO MONEY!

Oh, I don't know.  Once dieseization settled down and passenger loads began declining to the automobile and airliner, railroads in general were less worried about the estetics of the motive power. 

Gone were the shovel noses of the Q, the stylings of the UP M-10000, the E2's and the likes of the New Haven Comet.

There was a little "dress up" with the Burlington E5's, the MoPac having portholes instead of square windows on their E7's and the Texas Special E7's with their fluting, but otherwise locomotive purchases became pretty much "off the shelf."  The only differences became the paint jobs.

Plus, N&W never had an E, F or PA unit to call it's own and bought GP's for passenger service.

At the end Santa Fe and Milwaukee bought boxy FP45's, and Santa Fe also the U30CG's.

As an example, last fall while a bunch of use fine folks were trackside on the BNSF slobbing all over the Nebraska Zephyr trips, one guy was walking his dog, totally oblivious as to what just blew past him.  Didn't even look up, it was just another train to him.

It's a different world, now. 

Rusty

It's a fair point.  You probably know that Eisenhower wanted the interstates built because during the war he became familiar with Germany's autobahns and thought that the US was at a strategic disadvantage for not having a similar road network.  The interesting thing is that here in the DC area, VA is experimenting with private toll lanes and it is a new initiative. 

The issue I have with Amtrak is not that there is no role for public transportation funding for rail.  Rather, Amtrak is forced to operate in areas where it is clearly foolish for it to do so -- lack of population, lack of ridership, etc.  The NE corridor is an area where it makes sense, but even on the NE corridor the railroad's finances are burdened with a lot of work rules and other regulations that private railroads don't endure.  And thus, even on the NE corridor, in the railroad's current configuration it is questionable whether it could make money.  If you look at Amtrak's financials, to take one example, there are a lot of expenses classified as capital expenses and it seems at the very least questionable.  That classification has accounting ramifications that make the railroad's operations look more positive than the reality warrants.  It is what it is but personally I would like to see Amtrak transition into private hands.  Operations would largely consist of those on the NE corridor, where trains make intutive sense.

As an Alstom guy I seriously think they should have gone with this..

http://www.alstom.com/transpor...locomotive-prima-ii/

http://www.alstom.com/Global/T...20-%20English%20.pdf

I know its just as ugly but hey.. I am an Alstom Guy.

JHZ

jhz563 I think your choice is no better improvement in the looks dept.

I will take the Amtrak look over the Prima- dona!

Ditto!

Every other country in the world subsidizes their passenger railroads. Can't figure why something should be expected of Amtrak that isn't being realized anywhere.

The gov't throws gobs of money at the airlines, too, for example. The airlines don't build their own airports or run their own air traffic control systems! And they have gotten direct subsidies from Congress from time to time in the past as well.

I don't like the look.  Don't like the look of Euro locos either.  I like American stuff!!!  I like the look of BIG BEEFY American steam locos that when they blow the whistle it blows your ears off not a wimpy little horn that makes a high pitched toot toot.   I like F units,  I like Geeps,  I like modern American freight locos.  That's why I don't live in Europe.  Nothing against anyone living in Europe but you know what I mean.  And freight cars need 4 axles not 2.

Rick

And don't forget that nearly every major airline has been bankrupt.  United - Several Times, American - currently in bankruptcy, U.S. Air, Delta, NorthWest, Continental, etc.

Also, lets not forget Eastern, Western, Pam Am, TWA, Branif, etc. - all broke and long gone.

The only major airlines that I can think of at this time that haven't been bankrupt at sometime are Southwest and perhaps Alaska.

Take a look at bus lines - Greyhound and Trailways - gone to bankruptcy.  I saw a Greyhound bus the other day.  Perhaps the company is reorganized.

No one consistently makes money hauling people.  Why should Amtrak be any different?

I am looking forward to getting an O gauge model of the new engine to run with my other Amtrak equipment.  I like the business look.

Who do you think will be the first to make it - Lionel, MTH, Atlas, or someone else?