Anchoring The A/F S Scale ES44 Pilot

Wow!  Thanks for sharing.   A little more involved than I would have guessed.

 

Do you plan on putting full length handrails along the pilot steps?

Nope.  Once I finish with the rear pilot and wheels, it's "one and done."

 

Rusty

One step forward,two steps back,it seems...

 

Mark in Oregon

Y'know in the goode olde daze, Lionel trains were intended for children who were not nearly so fussy about things.  These days, it is mainly an adult hobby for folks who do care.  And care greatly.  I wonder if Lionel's mentality is still back in 1945?  Gads.....it can't be that hard to take a good idea, which was previously successful, and simply repeat it on the next product released.  Just wondering where the problem is.   Ed L.

Ok, I've got the general idea.
Being highly "non mechanical", wondering if a self tapping screw would penetrate both pilot and frame?
What would you think a a plastic pc glue between pilot and frame?
Thanks so much Rusty!  You are extremely considerate posting your work for the 3 or 4 of us that are scaler's.
I know I can handle this but sure hate messing with a $500 loco.
One and done works for me.
Fool me once...

Rusty the way you showed how to fix the pilot on the ES44AC can be done on the SD70ACe's too?

Probably, but the SD70's have mounting hardware, two screws and two spacers, for the pilots included (or is supposed to be) and the frame drilled out for them making this process unnecessary.

 

That's the bummer with the ES44.  We (or at least I) was expecting the same mounting arrangement on the ES44.

 

I will say this: Anchoring the rear pilot was less nerve-wracking than the front because I wasn't inventing it as I went and now knew what to expect.  It took me about 1/4 the time to do the rear than it did for the front.  Still, I dislike attacking a brand new shiny $500 chooch with my drills and motor-tool.

 

At least swapping out the wheels was easy.  Only 10 screws per truck...

 

Rusty

Holy smoke.  Thanks for being the brave pioneer.   As timing would have it, I just got my train workbench/area setup this weekend.  I think I will tackle the SD70ACe first. Then do some rolling stock (CN & Frico cylindrical hoppers) truck work and leave this beastie for later.

I'm still wondering if a self tapping screw would penetrate?
Years ago I used to use them on metal much heavier than this.

John or Rusty,

What are these used for? I know they are for the SD70ACe's.  

  Spacers to fix pilots on SD70ACe.

Thank you for the info. 

How do you mount these? Do you have to take the pilot off to put these on? 

Been a while since I did the SD70, but yes.  As I recall, the pivot screw is accessible from the bottom.  Remove the screw and centering spring as they won't be needed anymore.  It's also easier to mount the Kadee couplers with the pilot off.

 

Like the ES44, removing the truck sideframes also gives more room to work.

 

Rusty

 

 

Missed this earlier, John.

 

I don't see any reason why self-tapping screws wouldn't work.  It's just I started relying on drilling and tapping more than using self-tapping screws.  Seems it offers more control (prevents me from rushing and screwing things up.)  Just work slow and carefully.

 

Rusty

Thank you!  I may drill a pilot hole then go from there.
What sized screw would you recommend please?
I'm reluctant to undertake this but it has to be done.
I sincerely thank you for all your help on this!

The hardest part was drilling that first pilot hole, I was sweating bullets.  I used a can of compressed air to blow the shavings off the side (hopefully) periodically as I drilled and tapped. 

 

I used a 1-72 x 1/4" screw.  There should be enough room for a 2-56.  I wouldn't go any larger.  There's nothing "underneath" there pivot arms, so the drill will eventually come out into open space inside the shell on both ends.  The main thing is to keep the pilot in line with the frame and body while drilling.

 

I did give several thoughts to chalking it up with an "oh well," and putting the thing up for sale, but decided against it.  Don't think I'll buy another one, though.  Pity, overall it's just as nice a locomotive as the SD70 is otherwise. 

 

Rusty

Hmmm.  Wondered that meself.
At least hot glue it whilst drilling/tapping elsewhere.
Brilliant Mark!

Make sure the grease is all cleaned off, otherwise you might have chooch droppings on your mainline.  The front pivot on my unit was covered in grease, while nothing on the back.

 

Rusty

That might work,though it's been my experience that "hot glue" does not really hold smooth surfaces together all that well...and those two surfaces will be working hard against each other,so I don't know...worth a try,I suppose...

 

Mark in Oregon

Rusty: Thanks for all your pix and info on this conversion; i have a question for you that applies to the SD70ACe and this engine.

To whit: I have a "first build" C&NW SD70ACE which I planned to convert to Kadees. I just happened to start on the rear truck conversion and had little difficulty only in removing the electro-coupler attaching screw which proved to be "tight". I then started to work the front truck-I have been stymied for the past two years trying to get that coupler mount screw to budge one silly MM. I have the correct screwdriver (Posi-drive by Wiha tools...) and still have not managed to budge this sucker at all, so my conversion is Kadee to the rear and standard electro-coupler on front to this date. Did you have problems getting your electro-coupler screws to loosen? Any suggestions? ( I have not tried heat as yet....). 

I wish Lionel would take air drive/electric screwdrivers away from little Chinese girls.....

D&H, if I recall correctly, that screw hole is no longer needed once the electro coupler is off.
Could you take your Dremel and grind off the screw head, remove the coupler and even grind down the stump?  Seems I did that; it made no visible difference, the trucks hide the stump.

D&H, I had no trouble removing the electro-coupler screws.  As John suggested, grind (or drill out) the screw would be the best bet from my point of view.

 

Don't feel bad, I booggered up one of the Kadee bracket machine screws on my SD70, apparently some paint got into the threads on the pilot and the screw snapped off halfway through.  I wound up drilling a new hole next to the original and used a short Kadee coupler box screw (handy little things...) to hold the bracket in place.

 

Rusty

Thanks John & Rusty; my only reason for asking about this is trying to keep the possibility of re-installing the electro-coupler down the road should I sell the engine and a new buyer wanted it to operate.

Rusty, bet you were sweatin' on that one.
One of more impressive feats was to "superglue" a Kadee screw into a hole.  Had to grind it smooth then drill it out.  SHS F3.
Real smart on my part.

In another "how do you do" to the Scale crowd from the gang at Circle L, the screws supplied to attach the coupler box to the bracket are too short. 

The original SD70ACe models had both screws of the correct length to attach Kadee couplers to the bracket as well as the spacers and screws to fix the pilot to the frame.

 

The original run of ES44AC models (Norfolk Southern Heritage) also had the screws of the correct length but no spacers, screws, or means of fixing the pilot.

 

The last run of ES44AC models (BNSF, CP, CSX, KCS, CP, and UP) provided shorter screws for the Kadee couplers that were not long enough to pass through the coupler itself. Using the self-tapping Kadee screws instead of what Lionel provided was the only means of screwing the Kadee coupler to the bracket. In all models, the bracket screws worked well.

 

Rusty Traque,

What did you use to drill the holes? Did you drill them with a hand drill or with a Drummel Tool? Also did you use the #53 driil bit to drill through the frame and the pivot or the frame? 

I used a Dremel.  I have an old one with external speed control that can run slower that today's Dremels.

 

I first drilled a pilot hole with a #60 drill through both the frame and pivot arm.  The #53 was then drilled through both the frame and pivot arm.  Then a #48 clearance hole through the frame only.  After that the pivot arm was tapped 1-72.

 

Rusty

Thank you Rusty. i have another question. Do you need to drill a hole with a #60 bit first or are you okay just drilling a hole with the #53 bit only, then the #48?

You can drill without the #60 bit.  The #60 pilot hole just makes it easier to control when drilling the #53.

 

Rusty

Rusty,

I finished drilling the #53 holes. I drilled through the pivot arm and the frame. Now here is my question. Are you susspose to drill the frame or just go through the pivot and then stop? 

Drill #53 through the pivot arm.  Drill #48 through the frame only.  Tap the pivot arm 1-72.

 

Please refer to the photo's at the beginning of this thread.

 

Rusty