Any Genesis experts out there?

There are several subtle differences between the P40/P42 based on my research for 3rd Rail on these models.  While the NYC Central scheme is not a part of this initial run of models the NH and MTA painted schemes are.  The major differences are the lack of an exposed fan on the rear section and a simply a large roof vent instead, the roof details are slightly modified and of a different proportion, the skirting is shorter on the P32 as is the detail on the underside including the battery box, the side door is further forward on the car body, and finally there is a hatch on the nose where the front number board is on a typical P40/42.  There are several other minor differences, but these are the major ones.  The 3rd Rail model of the P32AC-DM will accurately capture these details and it is likely that the heritage schemes of MTA "Beachball", Conrail, and NYC will be offered on a likely second run after the initial models are completed. 

Thanks Jonathan! I really appreciate the info. I didn’t realize that anyone was even working on a P32AC! Have these been cataloged yet?

@JamesRx posted:

Thanks Jonathan! I really appreciate the info. I didn’t realize that anyone was even working on a P32AC! Have these been cataloged yet?

They have.  3rd Rail is a forum sponsor so you can tag on the link there.  As I said, we aren't doing the NYC scheme yet, but I suspect we will after the first run gets produced. They maybe even in the first run too as we are still in design, and these are likely going to ship in 2025.

Great! I just took a look at the reservation page and I’m very impressed. I don’t know of annyone else who has made both the P42 and the P32. in fact, I’m not aware of any P 32 scale models out there at all. But if I could make one humble suggestion….. the number one Amtrak locomotive on the Hudson line, in fact in all of New York State, is the P32AC in a phase 3 livery with the Empire service logo. This is all you see all day long on the water level route these days. Is there any possibility they would consider making a P 32 in that paint scheme?

Here’s a photo of one I took last week….

@JamesRx posted:

Great! I just took a look at the reservation page and I’m very impressed. I don’t know of annyone else who has made both the P42 and the P32. in fact, I’m not aware of any P 32 scale models out there at all. But if I could make one humble suggestion….. the number one Amtrak locomotive on the Hudson line, in fact in all of New York State, is the P32AC in a phase 3 livery with the Empire service logo. This is all you see all day long on the water level route these days. Is there any possibility they would consider making a P 32 in that paint scheme?

You are not the first to make this request.  All I can say is that send an email to Scott Mann requesting this paint scheme.  I suspect that with the large number of road numbers going in the first run that the Amtrak P32AC-DMs will be a 2nd run project.  However, I am merely a consultant.  Scott makes all the important business decisions!

One of the challenges with running the Amtrak P32AC-DM is that it has the bolt on nose with the nose hatch which is a different tool from the other variations.  Not impossible to do, just that we are doing a lot of variations on this round!  So far 4 or 5 tools to do all the roads that are being offered.

Thanks I will certainly make the suggestion. I really appreciate your replies… not only did you answer my questions, but enlightened me to the fact that scale models of these locomotives are about to be made!

I remember a little about these engines. The P40's and P42's both were equipped with DC traction motors. The P32's for Amtrak and Metro-North used AC traction motors. The P42's (vs the P40's) have electronic fuel injected engines, which provided a rated horsepower increase. The P40's and P42's use the GE FDL16 engine, while the P32 uses the GE FDL12 engine, and is rated at 3150 HP (from my memory). The change to AC traction for the P32's slightly changed the external appearance of these locomotives vs the P40's and P42's.

There was a change in the P42's vs the P40's. The P40's have (had?) a rear window and an "abbreviated" controller that was to be used to make backup moves. This controller was activated with a controller key. This backup controller was deleted (from my memory) on the P42's.

The MNCRR P32's of course have pickup shoes for under running 3rd rail. The P32's are equipped with five inverter modules, one for each traction motor and one specifically for Head End Power (for train lights, heat, AC, etc.) The MU plug connections are different for Metro North vs Amtrak, so you won't see any MNCRR P32's on an Amtrak train and vice versa. (I still must learn in the RR business to "never say never", but feel quite confident here.)

I also remember that a P32 was tested at DOT-Pueblo, and one of my Engineering friends told me with overspeed disabled it ran at 128 mph. The CN versions of the Genesis P42 also achieved high speed on test. Structurally, they are like battering rams. I recall one grade crossing collision where a P40 or P42 hit a flatbed truck driven by two women that got hung up on a crossing. The Genesis, traveling at 98 mph, hit the truck so hard it split the truck bed in half, and the load (hay bales) destroyed a nearby home. The Genesis and her train stayed on the trucks, the engineer received a bruise on his elbow, and the Genesis and train continued to its destination.

I also recall the critical comments regarding the appearance of these locomotives. While controversial when they were first placed in service, since that time, the majority of newly designed passenger locomotives used in the USA seem to be similar in design and appearance.

@Hudson5432 posted:

I remember a little about these engines. The P40's and P42's both were equipped with DC traction motors. The P32's for Amtrak and Metro-North used AC traction motors. The P42's (vs the P40's) have electronic fuel injected engines, which provided a rated horsepower increase. The P40's and P42's use the GE FDL16 engine, while the P32 uses the GE FDL12 engine, and is rated at 3150 HP (from my memory). The change to AC traction for the P32's slightly changed the external appearance of these locomotives vs the P40's and P42's.

There was a change in the P42's vs the P40's. The P40's have (had?) a rear window and an "abbreviated" controller that was to be used to make backup moves. This controller was activated with a controller key. This backup controller was deleted (from my memory) on the P42's.

The MNCRR P32's of course have pickup shoes for under running 3rd rail. The P32's are equipped with five inverter modules, one for each traction motor and one specifically for Head End Power (for train lights, heat, AC, etc.) The MU plug connections are different for Metro North vs Amtrak, so you won't see any MNCRR P32's on an Amtrak train and vice versa. (I still must learn in the RR business to "never say never", but feel quite confident here.)

I also remember that a P32 was tested at DOT-Pueblo, and one of my Engineering friends told me with overspeed disabled it ran at 128 mph. The CN versions of the Genesis P42 also achieved high speed on test. Structurally, they are like battering rams. I recall one grade crossing collision where a P40 or P42 hit a flatbed truck driven by two women that got hung up on a crossing. The Genesis, traveling at 98 mph, hit the truck so hard it split the truck bed in half, and the load (hay bales) destroyed a nearby home. The Genesis and her train stayed on the trucks, the engineer received a bruise on his elbow, and the Genesis and train continued to its destination.

I also recall the critical comments regarding the appearance of these locomotives. While controversial when they were first placed in service, since that time, the majority of newly designed passenger locomotives used in the USA seem to be similar in design and appearance.

Thank you! Very informative!

@Hudson5432 posted:

I remember a little about these engines.

. . . and we always are pleased when you share information like that from your perspective as a GE insider.

As one who regrets not having photographed Amtrak in the EMD F40PH era, I am reminded that Amtrak will look much different in a few years as the GE Genesis locomotives run off their last miles.

@Number 90 posted:

. . . and we always are pleased when you share information like that from your perspective as a GE insider.

As one who regrets not having photographed Amtrak in the EMD F40PH era, I am reminded that Amtrak will look much different in a few years as the GE Genesis locomotives run off their last miles.

It’s a matter of personal taste, of course, but I happen to be a fan of the Genesis look. It’s the only modern locomotive I’ve seen that hints back at the beauty of the EMD E and F units. I will miss them when they’re gone, especially since their replacements, the Siemens Chargers, just look like glorified buses to me!

JamesRX

said " unlike the New York Central, which did not switch from electric to diesel out of Grand Central until Croton-Harmon, the P32AC-DMs running out of GCT today seem to switch to diesel almost immediately after leaving the city. Any particular reason to not utilize electric power all the way up the line?"

The link below may answer your question and maybe not.

https://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/55615.aspx

Charlie

@Choo Choo Charlie posted:

JamesRX

said " unlike the New York Central, which did not switch from electric to diesel out of Grand Central until Croton-Harmon, the P32AC-DMs running out of GCT today seem to switch to diesel almost immediately after leaving the city. Any particular reason to not utilize electric power all the way up the line?"

The link below may answer your question and maybe not.

https://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/55615.aspx

Charlie

Thanks Charlie! Fascinating discussion!

Depending what years you are modeling, Metro-North and Amtrak also ran ex-New Haven FL9's into Grand Central and Penn Station respectively...the third rail (electric) operation did not always work as expected so one benefit was the bug population in the Park Ave. Tunnel was kept under control.

If interested in the beautiful FL9's, the great book, "Diesels to Park Avenue" is a must.

Tom