Any Lionel American Flyer news at York?

News and S scale...

 

(The sound of crickets.)

No, it was news about Flyionel American Flyer not S-Scale.

I think it's crickets even for Flyer.  Buzz for any new product announcements out of York seems to be muted. (Even the buzz for O gauge Vision Line GG1 isn't all that great.)

 

As I understand from reading a post on another forum, Lionel and MTH are more concerned with keeping up with whizz-bang technology (allegedly to attract the young'uns) than new product.

 

Maybe someone at S Fest (I'm unable to go) next week will have some news.

 

Rusty

I just talked with a member of our club who just left York to fly home.  He says that that only the Polar Express of current production was on display and operating.  None of the Berks to come were there.  He asked people at Lionel if more Berk road name might be next.  They would say only that the new items would be in the next catalog.  He also asked if they would produce wide radius Flyer tubular track because that was an interest of his. The answer was no, only Fastrack for the future.

 

In addition he asked about if replacement parts are going to be made for the later Legacy engines and he was told that no, that they are really not in the parts business and they sell parts off of returned engines where available.

 

I don't know why they are so closed mouth about the future.  I guess Lionel believes we should just hope and pray for new product.

Neither Lionel or MTH will be at S-Fest.  

Bill

 

I see and understand your frustration with Lionel's closed lip-ness with us.  While you cant spell pessimistic without a lot of "S"es, Lionel had been very overt about keeping their product plans in O very close to the vest - I hope the lack of information in S is just part of the same play. 

 

Ben

I was at York. Lionel had a Southern Berk on display. Side rods and linkage were darkened and looked good. Talked with tech and the newer Berkshire engines were not built at the same factory as the polar express.

Thanks as my friend must not have looked hard enough.  Did they run the Southern Berk?

No. Not running. But I got to hold and examine it. Looks real good. One improvement is a double wiper pick-up on trailing truck, compared to the PE single wiper that is on me side of axel

I didn't expect them to be.  But there is the grapevine.

 

Rusty

The Lionel rep said that the new Berk's will be out in early 2016 and that they sent the tooling for the Berk to a high quality facility for production. With quality control problems being a ever present issue, you would think that only quality producers would be used!!!!

Cocker

Did the tender have the same detailess coal load as the PE Berk? 

Ben

I can't recall. I was looking at the underside looking at pickups and studying the linkage that will have a patina darken color

Thanks for the response cocker.

Ben

Did have a nice conversion with Dean who is in charge of the repair facility. He was very concerned with any problems with the new PE. 

his team has to make good on mistakes or short comings of the factory mistakes in the China factorys  mine was sent back and received to me within a week. Mike regan was very good to discuss any concerns also

Other than the pilot assembly, I wouldn't expect any major tooling changes.

 

Rusty

Consider the fact that what our parents paid for a engine or set in the 50s to the price of the Berkshires with the slow smothe action of these engines it's not a bad deal in my opinion

Agreed.  I was able to inspect a friend's Polar Express Berk and it's a pretty nice locomotive given it's context and price point.  I now know what to expect on the separate sale Berks.

 

Frankly, I'd still like to see wire handrails, but I know it's not gonna happen right now.

 

Besides, American Models conventional bare-bones Pacific retailed for more 20 bucks more than the Flyer-Chief Berkshires MSRP and a conventional AM Northern retails for $499.95.

 

Rusty

But the separate Berk retails for more than the whole PE set does, or is darn close.  What more are you getting for your money?

Ben

Other than an NKP style pilot, nothing, really. 

 

Just another mysterious way Lionel moves in.

 

Maybe, we'll get a flashing LED to simulate sparks shooting out of the stack...

 

Rusty

Did they have the red M&StL Baldwin on display at York?  They say they are about to ship these. 3 Years waiting.

The just being delivered D&H passengers cars are very pretty, indeed. Can't wait for mine. The Southern Berk paint job was quite striking, too (too bad .. no Legacy, no wire hand rails) with paint that is less glossy (meaning better) than on the PE Berk. They did have an advance sample of the wide radius AF Fastrack turnouts, which look and feel like they might function well. Yes, a handsome sample of the M&StL Baldwin was on display. It had a posted due date, but I don't recollect it precisely.

 

Matt was rather closed mouth about the future. He was pleasantly open to suggestions.

 

Enjoyed York immensely, as usual. The weather was wonderful.

 

Bob

 

I wonder if we have seen the last of the high-end scale S offerings from Lionel. It's a tough time to be interested in S scale.

Why do you think it is a tough time to be in S. There is a lot out there. Maybe Lionel with the flyer chief engines will bring more people to S.  There was many many complaints about the 1000 dollar engines. Plenty of post war flyer out there and will be more when us older guys who collect flyer are fallen flags

If you notice, I said "S scale".... Flyer fans rejoice. S scale modelers continue to see product support dwindle. That's what is a shame.

 

Interesting thought- Lionel makes more realistic looking O gauge trains that run on totally ridiculous 3 rail track, but their trains that run on realistic 2 rail track are much more "toy" oriented. I've been at this for years and it makes no sense to me. I can't imagine what new modelers must think.

 

As far as bringing more people into S goes I doubt that FlyerChief will make a difference. The two scales seeing growth of new and younger people are HO and N from what I have read. The reasons in my opinion are because they are realistic, relatively small, available from more vendors, operate on a mature/diverse track system, and are affordable.

Breaking out my handy-dandy inflation calculator (thanks Google), the price of goods in 2015 is almost exactly 10 times the price in 1950 [frankly, I would have guessed it was more].  1950 is about the year my parents gave me my first Flyer stuff (became a consistent Xmas gift for a number of years).

 

So for the sake of some comparisons - using the 1950 catalog from myflyertrains.org:

 

#5008 - SF Alco A,B and three Al passenger cars (360, 361, 660, 662, 663) - $65

#4914A - 322 Hudson, 718 mail pickup car plus three 650 coaches - $36.70

#5011 - 334DC UP FEF, and three Al passenger cars (660, 661, 663) - $52.50

 

All the sets included track enough for an oval, but no transformer (at least its not listed).  BTW, the engines themselves listed for almost the set price:

SF Alco 360,361 - $45

322 Hudson - $36.75 (more than the set!)

334DC FEF - $39

 

So multiply these numbers by ten  - more or less in the ballpark of some of the sets or engines available now.  Just as one example, Flyonel's FEF was/is in the $400 ballpark, is it not?

 

Obviously there aren't any "exact" comparisons, but I'll leave it to you folks to haggle over whether you get 'more for the money' now vs then (those Al passenger cars are certainly eye-catching all polished up - but not much detail...).

 

But not above the set price by 8%.

 

Rusty

I think FlyerChief can make a difference because of it's price level. Only time will tell us for sure.

 

Younger people can by a modern locomotive and pick up cheap Gilbert cars with older type track and have fun with their kids and grand kids.   We just need to promote the hobby where we can and show them how much fun it can be through train shows where layouts are running.

 

Lionel's FlyerChief starting with the Polar Express was good for the S Gauge hobby.

Here's the FlyerCheif Southern Berkshire from The TCA Netvision presentation:

 

http://tcamembers.org/netvision/

 

The separate sale Berks will have an electro-coupler on the tender and will come with the universal remote allowing control of up to 3 FlyerChief locomotives.

 

Rusty

I didn't take that video the same way about the universal remote being included with the Berks. Maybe I missed something?

I understood it as the universal remote will be included with all new upcoming "Chief" products.

 

Rusty

At York I saw the following new items from Lionel.

- The new Bershire

- The Stl and UP Baldwins

- The R27 left and right Fastrack Command Control Switches. ( They were not painted but they were final)

 

I did take some pictures and will see if I can post them here.

 

--Rocco--

Attached is a photo of the R27 Remote Switches from the York meet.

 

--Rocco--

Attached is a picture of the Union Pacific and STL Baldwins.

 

--Rocco--

Attached is a picture of the new Bershire from the York meet.

 

--Rocco--

Rocco

The frogs on the turnouts don't look as bad as the 20" manual turnouts??? Would you agree?

Ben

At Lionel I spoke to Howard Hitchcock and Mike Regan.

 

I spoke a about several things with Howard Hitchcock

 

- Thomas the Tank Engine (No one has the S License and any license has several requirements). My assumption here is the cost may not be worth it.

 

- I requested that they restore both the RailRoad crossing with gates Fastrack and the Mechanical reefers.  I got a sense from his reply that there may be room to reconsider.

 

- The one longer discussion that he seemed to have more interest in is my request that if they were to do more Legacy conversion of previously issued Alco's that they consider making Legacy Powered B Units.  I shared with him that Lionel has issued so may cars for some of these sets like the Northern Pacific (13 cars) that the one Engine can't pull all the cars effectively.  We talked even about an unpainted B unit although I did not think that was likely.

 

I also Spoke with Mike Regan.  We spoke of 2 items.  I talked about the cancellation of the Fastrack RR crossing.  He said the tooling was too costly based on the sales of AF Fastrack to date.  I then countered with how can they expect people to buy a lot of track if there were not switches.    How can I use a bumper if there are no sidings.  He said the Switches are coming later this month so let's see what the sale of track will be.

I did ask him another question regarding the LCS system.  I said if I bought the O gauge sensor ad installed in an AF Fastrack, did he think it would work on the Legacy engines with sensors such as the SD70.  He said no he did not think it would work, He KNOWS that it will work. (I might give this a try soon)

 

--Rocco--

At MTH I spoke with briefly with Mike Wolf.  He told me the new F3's would not be out until January.  I offered two suggestions to him.  I said if I was him and I wanted to maximize the ROI on new S tooling, I would make detailed scale (or near scale)Passenger cars with interiors.  This being something Lionel is most likely will not be tooling any time soon and they can reuse the tooling again and again.

 

The second suggestion is if they ever want to get more into the mass market of trains, the Thomas the Tank engine license in S is available and would allow them to enter a market they currently do not have exposure to.  Mike Wolf politely listened and really did not react.

 

--Rocco--