Any more than one transformer needed?

The TW would be ideal, as it is essentially two 1033 transformers in one case.

Using the accessory fixed voltages as needed will leave the A-U posts for train control without affecting train operation.

Rob, I could be wrong, but I think he is planning to have a separate transformer for accessories and switches, and wonders if it is adequate

Raising4 [good luck], don't forget to make sure that the track transformer and the accessory/switch transformer are in phase.  There are many threads explaining how this is done.

For the price of a good used ZW that would be my vote. It will have plenty of power for what you are doing now, plus room for future expansion. Don't forget to fuse each output at no more than 10 amps! And put a TVS across each output that powers track.

Rod

True Rod, if he can find a good one.  Some are over 60 years old, and may or may not have been given TLC.  But if he already has 2 transformers, no point in spending his daughters' dowries to get one.

Yep, I've used phased transformers before so I could use a common bus line for multiple mainlines.  I know how to do that, but thanks for the warning anyway. It's a good general warning on this forum.

I think Rob gave me a good idea.  I was planning 4 transformers for this layout. Two for the two mainlines, one for the yard, and one for switches and track-activated switches.  I had forgotten that my TW was essentially 2 transformers, so I could use it for, say, the yard (variable output) and the switches and track activated devices (fixed voltage). I'll put my LWs on the mainlines since they've got higher output. That drops me down to three transformers.  Not that I'm short on transformers but I AM short on space for them on this down-sized layout.  I'm putting a Powermaster between the track and each transformer so I can run conventional engines with my Cab-1, so my control panel is jam-packed.

Thanks again Rob.

Rod Stewart posted:

For the price of a good used ZW that would be my vote. It will have plenty of power for what you are doing now, plus room for future expansion. Don't forget to fuse each output at no more than 10 amps! And put a TVS across each output that powers track.

Rod

I have a used and reconditioned ZW, but it's dedicated to my Christmas layout.  Probably didn't need a ZW, but I couldn't pass it up.  I believe the Powermasters I'm using negate the need for a TVS, right?

RJR posted:

True Rod, if he can find a good one.  Some are over 60 years old, and may or may not have been given TLC.  But if he already has 2 transformers, no point in spending his daughters' dowries to get one.

No dowries for these girls. Just got one thru college and have two more in college. Nothing left to squeeze out of me unless I start selling some trains.

RJR posted:

Rob, I could be wrong, but I think he is planning to have a separate transformer for accessories and switches, and wonders if it is adequate...

The TW with a total continuous output rating of 130 watts(65 x 2) would provide the widest number of fixed & variable taps to use for accessories & switches and would be plenty if there is another designated transformer being used for trains only.

The 1033 would likely do too, except if that number of switches, with their corresponding bulbs, starts pushing upwards, it will start taxing the ~65 watt output of the 1033.

Rob, it seems like the K-line O27 switches draw power from the track, not the taps from the transformer powering the switch. I'm new at this, but when I hooked them up to just track power, the switching mechanism didn't work but the lights did.

So, my thinking is to put an LW on each mainline with the switches. I think they're higher output than either the TW or my 1033s.  Then connect the fixed voltage taps of the TW to my switches and accessories and the variable taps of the TW to the yard.  Make sense?

I don't want to hijack this thread, apologies to Raising4, but this topic seemed related.  Was there ever a "Transformer" thread that discusses the classic and current Lionel transformers (and others) as to capacity, uses in the current times, etc.  I'd be very interested in that.  I have current transformers but as mentioned above, I keep threatening to have the KW that my Dad bought for me when I was three in 1952 and have it upgraded/reconditioned; just to have it.  Maybe use it for Christmas like you do Raising4 (good luck with that I had 2+2, it's tough).  Thanks.

Agree, not a hijack. Good related topic. I've got a couple modern transformers that came with sets. One is a BW, but it takes up a lot of real estate with a power pack separate from the throttle.  It came with a Lionel passenger set. I also have a modern transformer that came with a WBB set.

My postwar transformers were all my grandfathers which I remember from my childhood and will use them before the modern stuff out of memory/honor to him.

raising4daughters posted:

Rob, it seems like the K-line O27 switches draw power from the track, not the taps from the transformer powering the switch. I'm new at this, but when I hooked them up to just track power, the switching mechanism didn't work but the lights did.

You need to check your wiring on the K-Line switches - and the manual(attached) on how to wire for fixed voltage... lights and motors are either both track powered or both fixed/aux powered. 

raising4daughters posted:

 So, my thinking is to put an LW on each mainline with the switches. I think they're higher output than either the TW or my 1033s.  Then connect the fixed voltage taps of the TW to my switches and accessories and the variable taps of the TW to the yard.  Make sense?

 All good - use the "A" posts on LWs and the TW as layout commons, "U" to the center rail for tracks. The LW A-U for the mainlines is 6-20 volts, the TW A-U for the yard is 7-18 volts. Using D, E, & F as needed with "A" common to power accessories from the TW won't affect the train speed.

ADCX Rob posted:

raising4daughters posted:

Rob, it seems like the K-line O27 switches draw power from the track, not the taps from the transformer powering the switch. I'm new at this, but when I hooked them up to just track power, the switching mechanism didn't work but the lights did.

You need to check your wiring on the K-Line switches - and the manual(attached) on how to wire for fixed voltage... lights and motors are either both track powered or both fixed/aux powered.

Nothing really wired yet. All I did was put lay down the track with switches and connect a lock on to the track (a good distance away from the switches) and power up the track from a transformer to the single lock on.

All my new (to me) K-line switches lit up. Nothing is connected to the aux power taps (no switch controller, etc.).  Strange, but I just assumed the bulbs were powered by track power. I'll read through the instructions, but I really haven't done any wiring at this point to check.  And I pinned them in accordance with the instructions. Strange.  Any ideas?

raising4daughters posted:

 Any ideas?

Ah had, thanks again. Looks like I need to remove the bridge(s).

I just swing it around 90° and leave it on the track voltage post.

You can also use each K-Line switch as a lockon by making track power connections at the two outside posts - "G" is ground(lockon clip 2), the outer post is center rail(lockon clip 1).

R4D,

    When I used a separate Transformer to power all my switches, I used an old ZW to power about 35, 711-072  Lionel Switches, as they drew massive power.  I altered the power output using one handle of the ZW as I increased the amount of switches I added to the Christmas layout each year during that era.  Always use more power than you need, you will probably want to add additional switches in the future.  Also if you are using conventional tubular change all the bulbs in this older switches & controllers over to LED's, it cuts the massive power required to run the old switches.  If you happen to be using low voltage switches and modern track, Rob is giving you great advise, a lot smaller Transformer will get the job done.  However there are lots of old ZW's in great shape available if you want one, the Train shows have them available all the time.  If you want to go smaller pick up an old KW, they also work great and cost a lot less money.

RGD/Dave

ADCX Rob posted:

I just swing it around 90° and leave it on the track voltage post.

You can also use each K-Line switch as a lockon by making track power connections at the two outside posts - "G" is ground(lockon clip 2), the outer post is center rail(lockon clip 1).

GREAT Tip. Didn't realize that.  That'll improve the look of the layout.

Pine Creek Railroad posted:

R4D,

    When I used a separate Transformer to power all my switches, I used an old ZW to power about 35, 711-072  Lionel Switches, as they drew massive power.  I altered the power output using one handle of the ZW as I increased the amount of switches I added to the Christmas layout each year during that era.  Always use more power than you need, you will probably want to add additional switches in the future.  Also if you are using conventional tubular change all the bulbs in this older switches & controllers over to LED's, it cuts the massive power required to run the old switches.  If you happen to be using low voltage switches and modern track, Rob is giving you great advise, a lot smaller Transformer will get the job done.  However there are lots of old ZW's in great shape available if you want one, the Train shows have them available all the time.  If you want to go smaller pick up an old KW, they also work great and cost a lot less money.

RGD/Dave

 

Thanks.  I think transformers are the one thing I don't need more of.  Here's my lineup of postwar transformers.  1 ZW that I use at Christmas and would like to keep it for that purpose, 1 TW, 2 1033, 2 LW, and 2 RW (which are running my switchless around-the-ceiling layout). I also have a modern Williams transformer and a modern Lionel BW with the separate power pack and throttle.

My layout is in a bedroom without much room for expansion other than an elevated level.  It's about 8' X 11' with fairly large holes in the center for standing and access.

The number of switches doesn't matter when selecting a transformer:  what counts is the load applied by the lights in the switches and controllers.  Very few of us ever throw more than 1 or 2 switches at a time.

raising4daughters posted:

Rob, it seems like the K-line O27 switches draw power from the track, not the taps from the transformer powering the switch. I'm new at this, but when I hooked them up to just track power, the switching mechanism didn't work but the lights did.

So, my thinking is to put an LW on each mainline with the switches. I think they're higher output than either the TW or my 1033s.  Then connect the fixed voltage taps of the TW to my switches and accessories and the variable taps of the TW to the yard.  Make sense?

Speaking of K-Line switches they can be tricky because they like mainly the K-Line brand of switch, there could be another type of switch control they work with but it can be hit or miss. K-Line switches should not use that much power.

Lee Fritz