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I would spray a lubricate like WD 40 or something that helps loosen stuck bolts and let it sit for hours to soak in good, then maybe try a scribe or some kind of pointed steel tool and try to tap around the edge of the broken bolt tapping on an angle try to get the bolt to rotate in a counter clockwise motion . if you get it to loosen up and come out of the drive wheel your home free, otherwise you'll have to drill a small whole in the center of the broken bolt , if you go off to one side and not stay in the center of the bolt you possibly might have to replace the entire wheel with a new one! I would be glad to help you if needed with the repair! IF YOU DRILL THE WHOLE small enough then you can purchase an easy out to remove the bolt, they work in reverse , as you screw it inside the broken screw counter clockwise it will grip the threads and unscrew the broken bolt , but sometimes the tool breaks, so it could go either way a simple fix or become more complicated, just depends how careful you are removing the bolt!
ALAN
How tight in the hole do you think the broken stub is? Did it break while the screw was being tightened or removed? These are broken screw removers for small screws that do not require any drilling, but success with them will depend on how tight the broken stub is in the hole. Look at the Micromart web site or other seller of small tools. Also spraying the screw with Kroil might help. It is the best penetrating oil I have used, but is only sold direct, so maybe hard to find if you do not order it from the manufacture. If you decide to drill the stub out, drill with a left hand drill so drilling does not farther tighten the screw. Left hand drills are available from McMaster.com. Good luck.
Remove the side rod.... Is there anything left to grab a hold of with perhaps small vice grips.. Yep, lube first and let sit for a while.
I like Alan's suggestion of trying to tap it counter clockwise .
Thanks I ordered a easy out set from lowes I will pick up Friday when over that way will try that I know if it doesn't work probably looking at replacing the wheel which doesn't bother me I just figured I would try something first and to my advantage I do have a small drill press so I just have to line the engine up with a small drill bit and go slow and easy. I understand about the revrse drill bit and may look when I'm at lowes Friday but don't hold my breath on it from them as do have a couple of drills with reverse in them
If you cannot get the screw out that would be a easy wheel replacement. Jeff at train tender parts should have one.
franktrain
I deal with Jeff Kane all the time I'm sure he has the part if it comes to the worst.
Pre soak the screw with WD40 or some other thread loosener. If you want to get serious, use a soldering iron to heat the outside of the wheel up before you add the WD40. That gets the wheel to expand slightly. Makes a better gap for the lubricate to get down the threads of the broken screw. Get a new screw for that hole and use it to buy some carbide drill bits that are slightly smaller diameter than the body of the screw. The body is the solid piece of the screw shaft that would be left behind if the threads were shaved off.
Use a center punch to tap a dent into the center of the broken screw. Then use the carbide drill bit at low rpms to drill down into the body of the broken screw. (The carbide bits will be more expensive and they are brittle. They also will go through your screw like hot butter.) Then you can use the EZ out screw remover if you bought one small enough for this job. You can also use a small torx bit that can fit inside the hole and angle it to bite into the screw body and back it out.
Or you could just get a new wheel tap it onto the axle.
A CCW drill sometimes spins it right out. But in any case, heat it first before you try to use an easy out.
"Easy-out" is a misnomer; they are often the cause of frustration. Left-handed drills are available at Harbor Freight, and are best if you decide to go the easy-out route. That looks like a #736 loco. Be advised wheels are easy to get.
if you can remove the wheel first do it. Period. Then soak it in classic coke or Mexican coke over night. That should loosen it if it is corroded. If it is bottomed out you may need to drill and tap it Coke is much thinner than P oil. Used it for 50 yrs as a mechanic. Hope this helps
DONT USE A CHEAP HARBOR FREIGHT DRILL BIT. The last thing you want is s piece of hardened steel broken off in the screw. Buy a good one
Many Lionel locomotive wheels are drilled all the way through. If you have the tools to remove the wheel, you may have success trying to turn the screw out from the back. Just try to turn the screw clockwise, as if you are tightening it.
E-Z outs have never really worked that well for me. I think they are meant for use with larger diameter screws, where there would be some meat left between the hole for the E-Z out and the outside of the screw
We have had sometime success with CRC Freeze Spray on farm equipment where heat might damage other parts close by.
Thanks again I wouldn't of thought of heating the wheel some to expand it some. Didn't think about removing the wheel first either but don't have a wheel pulled but may try something else to get it off as it would make it easier. then I would know it is laying flat when I went to work on it.
As how it got broke my guess is same as yours I bought it this way. I figured If I need to get a new wheel oh well no biggy but figured would try to get it out if I could. Give me a challenge and something to do. ( retired so look for things to try) one of these days I will get brave enough to try a E-unit lol. Yes it's a 736 I got it and a 2671 on the bay. I need to pull one of my other transformers down as it seems the one I have down here the whistle buttons are now dead as I can't believe 4 whistle tenders have gone dead in like 3 months I need to get a simple layout set up at least so I can test trains properly I have tmcc engines and even one legacy engine but there all packed away and I have sold my tmcc equipment one day I will get legacy right now thou I'm more interested in prewar and postwar items there something I can understand and work on lol.
Question (new one ) got wheel off it looks like the hole for the screw/bolt goes all the way thru would it be better to try and drill from the back and see if I could get it to back out from that angle or is that just a indentation on the back side
I just found the rest of the original screw thanks to mag-na traction
Well looks like tomorrow is the drill press and a small drill bit and see if I can get it to back out. don't have any penetrating oil but did put some HOB-E-LUBE MEDIUM HL663 on the back side and letting it sit over night if it appears to be going down will add more. Will keep you all updated as I work on this
Well good news the oil has worked it self all the way thru so far and that's like in 30 minutes so tomorrow when I go out to the garage I hope this becomes a easy task this time
DONT USE A CHEAP HARBOR FREIGHT DRILL BIT. The last thing you want is s piece of hardened steel broken off in the screw. Buy a good one
I don't disagree, Matt, but they're very hard to find anywhere.
a reverse twist drill bit is the way to go. you won't find an easy out that small very easily and definitely not at lowes. and even if you did find one that small, you would have to drill a hole in the broken bolt anyway to use it. usually when you use a reverse twist drill bit the broken part screws out while you are drilling it.
I got one out just like that by using a tiny drill bit to cut a slot in the stud then used a small eye glasses screwdriver to remove it . Worked perfect . I purchased the drill bits off Ebay . They are tiny .
Yeah. Hard to believe one could find an Easy-Out that small at Lowe's.
If you have the driver off the axle, then drilling from the back will be easy. The screw will probably just rotate out. No need for left- handed drills. I suspect a good #56 drill will do just fine if you keep it centered in the screw.
I agree that Harbor Freight drills might not do it, but this is a one-shot attempt, and if you are careful, a cheap drill should do it. If you were going in from the front, and hoping to use a teeny Easy-Out, then a good Cleveland drill bit is in order.
Lowes is great for house paint and garden rakes. You need somebody else for hobby tools.
Once in a while screws are hardened, when used for crankpins. You should know right away - you won't be able to center-pop it.
My honest point of view though is if don't work and I need a new wheel well that is what I was thinking before I even thought of this and got some good advice from you all. The oil working itself through is a good sign I think it tells me it's not jammed in there maybe just need to get it moving from the back may even cancel the easyouts from Lowes. Will know more tomorrow after I start drilling it out lol.
Why is WD40 called WD40? Because Water Displacement test 1-39 did not work. WD40 is for spraying on electrical components to displace water and leaves a sticky film to help stop future penetration of water. It is not a true penetrant for (loosening) stuck bolts/screws, It was designed for things like arcing plug wires and it helps displace moisture. P. B. Blaster is a very good penetrant for helping loosen rusted and stuck bolts and screws. Spray a little on the bolt/screw and lightly tapping helps it penetrate into the threads plus time and extra shot or two and continuing to let it sit and soak in is the best way to help remove the bolt/screw that is stuck. For future reference if someone tells you to spray WD40 on a rusted bolt it was not designed for that. Hope this clears up some confusion on removing such things as stuck or rusted bolts/screws. Choo Choo Kenny
In my experience Liquid Wrench penetrates better than WD-40, and does a better job of freeing stuck screws and nuts.
It does loose it's effectiveness over time. I think the light solvents evaporate out.
PB Blaster is another product that works well.
Remove the wheel, place face down on your drill press, use a new sharp drill bit a little smaller than the hole. Drill into the bottom of the screw hole and as soon as the bit grabs it will twist the stump right out of the front of the wheel.
Tin
Its extremely difficult to remove small screws as the one shown here. Tiny diameter to work with and to guide any strong size drill bit in there. You might have success with a carbide drill bit but they are costly. IMO, pulling the wheel and replacing it is your best option.
I have removed broken screws from Lionel drive wheels many times. Unless the screw is rusted in place or cross threaded, it will come out. The original poster has nothing to loose in trying.
C.W. that was my attitude going into this that I had nothing to lose by trying
Okay all I operated this morning and here are the results
I figured with that oil working thru all night a couple of times it would back right out and that's exactly what it did holding the wheel between my thumb and index finger I could feel it starting to come out so stopped to see and it was out enough for me to back it the rest of the way by hand
Thanks for all the comments and suggestions as taking it off the engine made this so much easier then trying to do it on and getting a easy-out now just to get it back on in the correct setting I know just line it and do it slowly.
Dennis no difficulty at all it came right out . Taking your time and with nothing to lose and correct tools it worked fine. Oh and drill bit a cheap drill bit out of a Lowes drill set . No not carbide. Now was it just luck I don't think so from what others have to say I say it has to do with way it was done I did enter very slowly into the hole to make sure I was drilling right where I wanted to be and even after that I kept working on it very slowly as not to cause any unwanted pressure.