Anybody use tradional sized trains like Lionel's and railking in a scale setting?

These RK Scale RS1's & RS3's are actually scale sized and look pretty good with scale pieces

David, I'm looking forward to other folks' responses!  Thank you for asking the question!  I like scale cars and scale engines, but like you will never have room for even medium steam in scale.  I had a nice RailKing SemiScale Berkshire, but I thought it looked small compared to my 2-8-0, the largest Scale engine I have.  Anyway, I sold the Berk, but am now have another RailKing PS1 that I am getting for a song because the seller can't get it to run.  I'll get it going, and will see how it looks.

Can't go wrong with RS1 and RS3, Sam.   I have a RailKing scale RSD5.

Mark,

your so right, we seem to be obsessed with scale, don't get me wrong I love scale engines and other things but it seems we don't talk here much about semi-scale trains and cars. 

Menards 40' box cars are scale in length so if you need to match it up to a engine that will not overwhelm it. I like to double head RK sd70acs or how about some RK GP9's that are scale sized. Buying used also reduces your cost even more. 

Lets talk here with your thought on running semi-scale like you would scale, lets here your thoughts on everything semi-scale.

Dave

I believe the term "Hi-Rail" fits this topic very well.  Hi-Rail was used to designate toy trains being operated in scale settings/scenery.  My first layout was considered Hi-Rail.  I ran traditional sized trains (postwar/MPC).  I used scenery to help develop the atmosphere of the layout.  I also operated, as opposed to just running.  I had industries that needed switched and a small yard.  I think the term Hi-Rail is now used to describe all 3 rail trains being operated in a scale setting, scale as well as traditional equipment.

Tom

There's a lot of MTH Railking cabeese that are the same as Premier "scale".  The only difference I have discerned  is the size of the pick-up rollers. Also, any tank car is pretty much suitable for scale or semi-scale use, either way, as prototype tank car sizes were extremely variable.

Hi David1. I operate the Lionel TTUX TOFC cars which are closer to 1/64 than 1/48 but they work well with the intermodal crane and most visitors don't notice the size difference.

TJ

I am no expert- but I think the track layout itself has more effect on the LOOKS of your railroad, especially to visitors.  

1. The more crowded the track on a layout is the more it looks "toylike", such as the postwar Lionel display sets were.  That's fine- lots of people like toy trains, too.  But I think you need to decide "model railroad or train set" early before permanently laying track.  AND if you only have a 5 X 9' size- be realistic and go the toy train direction, or change scales.

2.  Placement of out of scale buildings (Plasticville etc.) and vehicles (1/43 vs. 1/48 for example) has more to do with the appearance as well.  If a larger than 1/48th vehicle is placed (a) away from the smaller buildings, and (b) closer to the visitor's eye it will look more like it fits.  (Not that an HO vehicle will ever look right on any O-Gauge layout, but a more like 1/64th Plasticville building probably can.)  Putting full 1/48th scale buildings and vehicles closer, and smaller vehicles and buildings farther away tricks the eye and adds to the perceived distance and size.  It fools a camera even more, I think.

3.  Probably running only 1/48th equipment with 1/48th locos etc.  together, makes sense.

I am trying to mix in O27 and O Gauge tubular track with Fastrack, using the tubular track with some painting, ballast and added ties to give the impression of lighter gauge and less-maintained portions of track.  I switch from Fastrack to tubular inside of tunnels, and below buildings- people seem to not even notice.  The eye can be fooled!

I think you can get away with running both "traditional" and Scale, especially if you don't try and run them together, or run a scale 80-foot/ 20" car on O27 (exaggeration- I know it wouldn't run!) turns!!

One of the best examples of traditional trains in a realistic setting was former forum member Frank53's layout. It was published in multiple magazine. No longer archived here but googling Frank53 trains will bring up links and pictures. All trains were Post War Lionel. Can't get more traditional than that.

Pete

Mix or match cant go wrong if you having fun

Mixing and matching traditional and scale items can be done successfully it just takes some thought and some work.  Tonkanut's picture is a perfect example.  He's correct about the Lionel TTUX flats, Maxistacks and the lionel tractor trailers being 1/64 but if you run a unit train behind a smaller diesel say a GP38, they look fine.  He's using a larger more modern diesel and it still looks okay.  Also in that picture you can see the smallest traditional sized caboose lionel makes at the end of a string of what looks like 40 foot scale reefers and it works.

My stuff is more traditional sized, i do have some scale pieces so I just have to assemble my consists with a little thought.  If I'm really interested in a scale piece, or even a very long car, I'll ask here on the forum if anyone else has any experience or pictures of how the piece will blend in or run on my tighter curves.  A case in point was MTH Schnabel car.  Always wanted one but didn't want to drop $150+ on one to find out it would look out of place or wouldn't negotiate my curves.  Found one without the transformer on ebay at a price I was comfortable with asked here on the forum got some positive responses so I pulled the trigger.  The Schnabel wouldn't usually be running in a regular train so it's easier to blend into a specialized consist, without transformer and the wheel arrangement it has, it actually looks better on my 42" curves than an I beam flat car.

Great topic David1! Thanks for posing the question.  I'm enjoying reading and seeing photos of everyones responses so far.  Lots of great ideas and suggestions by everyone!  Here are some photos of mixing semi - scale and scale from my layout.  Click on photos at bottom of this post for captions with explanations. 

When I first got back into the hobby 15 years ago my intension was to stay with my old 027 track and switches which I still had packed away, along with my Lionel locos and rolling stock, from when I was a kid.  This intension was based on my experience in checking out train stores and hobby shops, reading OGR and CTT, going to local train shows,  etc., about 16 and a half years ago ....  and WOW was I surprised at how much the hobby had evolved ( just as many of us have experienced ) and WOW was I surprised at the prices of toy & model trains!!!  My thought at the time was; this is a rich persons hobby and I am not a rich person ( at least monetarily ) so I'll be happy to stick with my toy trains from when I was a kid.   Well .... the rest is history as they say.  

I now run mostly scale engines and rolling stock both freight and passenger.  Because of my layout's size I don't have enough room to turn scale articulated steamers so I do run a MTH RK Y6b mallet with scale 50 ton hoppers, semi scale gons and flat cars, and the look is fine ( at least to my eyes and the eyes of the vast majority of my visitors ) When I run the Y6b I usually simultaneously run my Williams by Bachman scale GE 44 tonner on the adjacent mainline track pulling a short train.  Doing this allows the Y6b to look the part so to speak.   Whenever the Y6b is at the point of a mixed consist, I usually create the consist with six or so 50 ton scale hoppers behind the Y6, then several semi scale gons, flats, box, or tanks in a block of two or three ( running one semi scale gon, tank, flat or boxcar, looks out of balance ) which creates a balanced look to the overall train.  The Y6b also looks great pulling a solid coal train of all 16 of my scale 50 ton coal hoppers ... and when I want to make this train longer I  add 7 RK four bay hoppers at the front of the consist or interspersed throughout the consist and it all looks fine .. at least to my eye and those of my visitors. 

I also have a set of the MPC era B&O Lionel RDC cars which I run during commuter rush hours along with my K Line  Pennsy MU cars.  Both the Lionel and K Line are semi scale and look great whizzing around the layout which has scale buildings pretty much.... and with scale freight cars sitting on sidings.  

On my Mountain Division I can run all semi scale because this elevation is higher and farther away from the views eye.  Using semi scale creates a forced perspective.  This is where I pull out the Lionel 2--6-2 steamer from 1946/47 and put her to work, or my 2065 Lionel Hudson, my first train set I received from Santa in 1957 ( that was a wonderful Christmas!!!! ).  I can also use my RK Dockside with a semi scale weathered flat with a log load and a RK bobber caboose.  Sometimes I run a RK SW 1 with scale 50 ton coal hopper and a semi scale boxcar.  Depends on the day.  

When I left HO years ago it was because I bought into the Hi Rail O gauge concept of running semi scale trains in realistic settings.  I run all MTH RK steam.  I think they look great pulling either traditional sized or small (40ft or less) scale freight cars.  I run only 60ft passenger cars so everything blends and looks good together, at least to my eye.  The smaller equipment also blends well with smaller structures like the Atlas O passenger depot.  I'm enjoying O gauge in a much smaller space than I thought possible.  I also like the more relaxed approach to the hobby compared to my scale approach when running HO

TonkaNut posted:

Hi David1. I operate the Lionel TTUX TOFC cars which are closer to 1/64 than 1/48 but they work well with the intermodal crane and most visitors don't notice the size difference.

TJ

That is one big pickup truck, though - and the loco appears to be 1:48, not RK or Lionmaster.

Here is some pictures of my layout, all engines are semi-scale, the pennsy mikado is one of the first ps2 engines made in 2000-01.

please excuse some of the pictures, my camera is not that great plus I'm a lousy photographer. 

Even a layout with 0-96 curves is pushing it for prototypical modeling.  A layout like that would look MORE realistic and MORE “scale” running 6464 and Baby Madison cars.

Having said that, my basement has 0-31 walls...

Jon

Great points of view everyone!!!  All the photographs look great even when I can pick out scale and semi-scale items in the same picture.  I certainly was OCD about scale, but have come to grips with different scale vehicles and structures.  I can like a semi-scale train, or one with short scale cars and other semi-scale cars.  My problem was when I had a scale consolidation on an adjacent track to the RK Berkshire.  Well, Maybe I was rethinking this when I decided to pick up this supposed DOA 4-8-2.  Personally I think I will eventually get used to scale and semi-scale together, especially as space and funds dictate doing the best I can.  Another thing about semi-scale engines is they aren't as heavy to put on the tracks especially my high Ceiling Central RR.  I am to the point I am not going to put my Scale small steam up there anymore because of my arthritis.  I'll drop one on my foot someday!  

I model mostly Lionel 027  postwar pieces in a realistic setting as my basis for my eastern coal country layout.....

Prior to joining the dark side of the hobby (aka going completely scale) I had a layout which had O45 and O36 curves.  I exclusively ran non-scale engines with scale rolling stock.  I modeled the transition era so no rolling stock was greater than 40'.   All I can find at the moment is 2 pics from when the old layout was under construction.   Except the passenger cars, all other rolling stock is scale.  The engine is an Imperial Mountain.   It always looked good to me:

-Greg

i'm just the opposite.....i run scale stuff in a postwar lionel setting....track with a few mth, ertel builings and thats it!

Sure you can. If you have back issues of OGR, just check out my featured layout in RUN 255. I used scale and semi-scale freely mixed together. However, most of the train shots that were in the article were scale. I used the Lionel Hobby Shop, Barber Shop, Lift Bridge, Backshop and Factory just to name a few. They all blend seamlessly together. Here are a few pics from back then....

Donald

Scale MTH SD-60's with semi-scale modular well cars. Looks A-OK to me.

   Bill T.

gandydancer1950 posted:

I model mostly Lionel 027  postwar pieces in a realistic setting as my basis for my eastern coal country layout.....

Greg Houser posted:

Prior to joining the dark side of the hobby (aka going completely scale) I had a layout which had O45 and O36 curves.  I exclusively ran non-scale engines with scale rolling stock.  I modeled the transition era so no rolling stock was greater than 40'.   All I can find at the moment is 2 pics from when the old layout was under construction.   Except the passenger cars, all other rolling stock is scale.  The engine is an Imperial Mountain.   It always looked good to me:

         

  

-Greg

As these and the others in this thread show, a lot of folks are not only doing it they are doing it very well!!  Jim Policastro used to post his great layout here also.

I run MTH Railking engines only because the size of my layout. It's a two train operation with two ovals around it. I don't want to go much more than that, because I wanted to show a rual area. I don't have to many structures on it, but it works for me.

There's gotta be a place for Thomas the Tank engine. Is it scale?

IMO, you should just have fun and enjoy. See you at York.

Gerry

I purposely avoid scale and have only semi scale and even the smaller 027 size.

I like to sing ... out loud.   

Every now and then someone feels compelled to tell me, "Don't quit your day job."  I realize I'm no Pavarotti but I don't need a bucket to carry a tune.  I always end up telling them that I'm not singing to please or entertain them, I'm doing it to please or entertain myself.  Usually end up telling them where they can go if they don't approve.

Getting to the point, the same goes for my trains.  I set them up to run and please myself, no one else.  If I were to constantly worry about what others thought i wouldn't even bother spending the money.

Do what makes you happy.  Buy and runs the trains and stock you like.  Add the scenery that makes you feel good.  And if, in the long run, it all ends up being scale, none of it is or it's a mix, it's still something you like. 

Are you kidding. I'd pull 7 iñch tinplate with a scale switcher on Tuesday and use my Marx CV to pull scale boxcars around on the next track. 

   I use gondolas and tankers to separate semi scale and full scale equipment as well.  I'd say the width difference is most annoying to me. I actually like semi-scale size best.

Adriatic, I always look forward to seeing what you show us next.  One never knows!!  

I run traditional scale size Postwar and modern remakes of Postwar Lionel diesels (F3s, GP7/GP9s, Train Masters) with modern MTH Premier steam locomotives (4-8-4s, 4-6-4s). Looks fine because everything is scaled correctly. The only non scale sized equipment I run is 16" aluminum passenger cars. They look better on my 072 curves than 21" cars and, because I don't have a massive layout, allow me to run a decent length train. Because of this I'm firmly in the hi rail camp. But at the same time I also have some Postwar operating accessories (397 coal loader, ice depot, saw mill, barrel loader) because they are fun. That does take away some realism. 

The important thing is that you have fun. Don't worry about what others think.