Appraisal Help: Lionel Pre-War Items

First if your going to sell them do not separate the tender from the engine. 

Okay now on the pricing. the best way is goto EBAY and once you get to where they are selling O gauge trains up in the right corner you will see advance right to the right of the search button. Click on it. Check the one box that says sold now in the search field add each item one at a time and hit search you will get to see items that sold and you can compare condition with what they sold to determin about right or maybe there a little better or worst and take that into consideration 

Bill's posting above is a good way to start, previous auctions results will provide a strong idea of what the current market will bear. Also "google" your items, all kinds of information will become available via the internet library. Enjoy your quest...

Do you have any pictures of the items? 

It's never wise to assume they are in very good condition. Have you seen them?

Hi again,
Thanks for the responses everyone.

To answer some of the comments and questions,
I have them all in my possession.
I'll see about getting some pics of them up tomorrow. Having an annoying issue with internet connectivity lately.

I know about checking Ebay as a metric, didn't know if there were as any generally accepted middle ground numbers, e.g. $25 for any prewar boxcar, $100 for any engine, etc...

Thanks again

The 226E is a premium engine.
It is the largest locomotive they made outside of the scale/semi-scale Hudson.
Same goes for the tender.
While another poster stated the two should not be sold separately, when you look on EBay at both current and completed sales, you will see that they are often separated.

IMHO, the cars are also in the category of being among the better freight cars Lionel made.

If you have original boxes, make certain you let your buyers know. Boxes add value.
As with the trains, the condition of any boxes is critical.

If you have a set box, I suggest selling the locomotive, tender, and cars from the original set together.

The 165 crane and 115 station are also better pieces.
Be careful with the crane, the boom is rather fragile.

Here is a Lionel 226E with tender that sold for $291.
IMHO, the seller has a great reputation, which means he probably gets more / higher bids than many.

And here is a Lionel 226E without the tender that sold for $172.50
I am guessing that the tender, if sold separately, and in nice shape, would get well over $100.

Finally here  is one that sold for $395 from another well known seller.

Searching eBay listings is a good place to start - but if you are trying to "get a buyer fairly quickly" - be prepared to accept quite a bit less.

I'd also disagree with breaking up the engine and tender - I've been watching values on 1666 engines - and they go for about the same, tender or not - so why give away the tender? Only reason I can think of is they were part of the same catalog set.

On that note - its a good idea to check your collection against cataloged sets of the period - I recently picked up a loco and few pieces of rolling stock at an local auction - only to find it was part of a 1955 set - that was all there...just kind of mixed up. Wish I had driven a little harder to the basket on that one!

Also - be careful with small variants/details. Like "2817-Red Caboose" - there is a version where the LIONEL LINES is rubber stamped on the side - others have a chrome plate - the rubber stamp version brings much better money.

Since this is small collection - I'd say sell it yourself on ebay...even if you dont have much reputation points - got to start somewhere!

Since this is small collection - I'd say sell it yourself on ebay...even if you dont have much reputation points - got to start somewhere!

IMHO, it all depends on how big a hurry you are in. If you have the time, I think it would be better to build up a reputation by selling inexpensive items first.
Most people don't seem to worry about whether your feedback came from buying or selling. I guess its because people don't think it matters. If you have a lot of feedback as a buyer, they think that you know the ropes, and would be a good seller. I don't happen to agree with this.  When I am checking out a seller, I only look at the seller's feedback as a seller. If they have some unflattering feedback, I check out the poster to see if they have a pattern of giving bad feedback.

If you go the EBay route, be certain to include lots of sharp, detailed pictures.

Pictures are a must - you can usually post 12 photos per ad and its not like you are paying for film. Use different angles; sides, bottom and top.

Feedback is important too, buy whether they are a buyer or seller should not matter: it means they understand the way eBay works.

Pricing is a different matter. If you have a set price in mind then use the buy it now feature. If you are not sure, then use the auction with your minimum price and see what happens.

If it doesn't sell you can always lower your price and realist.

Cheers,

Sean

Sean007 posted:

Pictures are a must - you can usually post 12 photos per ad and its not like you are paying for film. Use different angles; sides, bottom and top.

Feedback is important too, buy whether they are a buyer or seller should not matter: it means they understand the way eBay works.

Pricing is a different matter. If you have a set price in mind then use the buy it now feature. If you are not sure, then use the auction with your minimum price and see what happens.

If it doesn't sell you can always lower your price and realist.

Cheers,

Sean

As long as you do your research - you should be able to settle on reliable "Buy It Now" values. There aren't a lot of surprises in train valuation. I see more people losing money using the auction format...(but - they make for some great buys!)  I would only use auction when I KNOW FOR SURE I have a rare or highly collectible item.

You just don't need competitive bidding for some stuff - I saw a guy who had a pair of FasTrack Earthen Bumpers listed as an auction...? What is he expecting? Like they are going to really take off and get 40 bucks for them? Nonsense - mark them 10 bucks BIN - and move on!

I would start with high priced BIN listings - and run them for 30 days...you can always revise the listing and add the "Best Offer" feature.

When it comes to trains - the title of your listing is the MOST important - this is what the searchers will see. Be specific and concise.

I just bought a bunch of stuff from a seller who had titled his listings as "O Gauge Train Car" - and 1 picture...nice to score boxed LIONEL rolling stock for less than 10 bucks a car - shipping was cheap too! A little more effort and he would have gotten 20+ for each...

Which brings me to another topic - get your shipping values right! That's part of the final price for buyers - make sure its right! Too many sellers act like shipping is some malfunctioning feature on ebay - it works - and is very reliable, as long as take the time to measure and weigh your item.

You can order boxes from USPS for free.

Why start with buy-it-now?
List the items with a starting price that is your minimum, or use reserves.

You might get lucky, and be the beneficiary of a bidding war between two people who have to have it.

If you come up with a dollar figure, list it here and save the commissions.

C W Burfle posted:

Why start with buy-it-now?
List the items with a starting price that is your minimum, or use reserves.

You might get lucky, and be the beneficiary of a bidding war between two people who have to have it.

If you come up with a dollar figure, list it here and save the commissions.

But getting people into that "war" is the trick - notice Trainz starts a lot of their sales at 99 cents...they know how to get you on the hook!

I think - with experience - you get a sense of when to use BIN vs Auction...

If you think a bidding war is going to break out over a used pair of FasTrack earthen bumpers - be my guest - make it an auction. Im certain most folks dont want to screw around for 7 days (for that kind of product) - and will just opt for the most reasonable BIN price.

I often offer something for a bit more than I know the market will bear - and use the "Best Offer" feature to control my price.

Now - if I chose to sell my 773 - I might start with a high open - and a big reserve.

Every item demands a different approach.

If you think a bidding war is going to break out over a used pair of FasTrack earthen bumpers - be my guest - make it an auction. Im certain most folks dont want to screw around for 7 days (for that kind of product) - and will just opt for the most reasonable BIN price

I'm wondering why you keep bringing up FasTrack earthen bumpers. Not being familiar with them, I took a look on EBay to see what people are asking. They seem to be a very low value item.

Do you think a 226E/2226W locomotive with tender is a low value item too?
How about those 2800 series cars and all the rest?

Of course condition is everything, and we have not seen pictures.

IMHO, if they are in nice shape, with the boxes, they are just the sort of stuff that could be subject to a bidding war.

C W Burfle posted:

If you think a bidding war is going to break out over a used pair of FasTrack earthen bumpers - be my guest - make it an auction. Im certain most folks dont want to screw around for 7 days (for that kind of product) - and will just opt for the most reasonable BIN price

I'm wondering why you keep bringing up FasTrack earthen bumpers. Not being familiar with them, I took a look on EBay to see what people are asking. They seem to be a very low value item.

Do you think a 226E/2226W locomotive with tender is a low value item too?
How about those 2800 series cars and all the rest?

Of course condition is everything, and we have not seen pictures.

IMHO, if they are in nice shape, with the boxes, they are just the sort of stuff that could be subject to a bidding war.

Its not that they are "low value" item - its that they are a common/current item - still in production - why use an auction format for such an item?

Same thing for -  something like the Automatic Gateman - I would also go BIN for that item...they almost never bring more than 50 bucks...even with the box. They are common - and you are unlikely to have anyone getting into a "bidding war" - there are nearly 20 of them available at the moment...how is a bidding war going to break out when the most expensive one is 120 bucks BIN(OBO)? - That one is in exceptional condition...the standard bearer on the ebay market at the moment - price (and bid on) all others accordingly.

226E is more valuable - but not a blowout item or anything - but I would probably use an auction format for that one - I would take into consideration the condition of my specimen...if condition is a little better than any of the recent sales - I'd probably start that with a respectable opening bid ( I prefer that to a reserve) - pretty much what I "want to get" for the item - and hope competitive bidding brings a nice price.

If I have a 226E that has some issues (again, compared to recent "sold" items")...I'd might pick a solid price for BIN - and let it ride.

Like I said - every item is different - and demands a different approach...

And - The OP said he wanted to find a buyer quickly - not maximize his take...those are different goals.

Hi again everyone,
Please see the below link to the Photobucket album I set up.
Please note these are not all the items, I took pics of the engine and tender, a couple cars, and the beacon tower  to get a quick sampling of items.
If the lumber car is supposed to come with logs I have them either separate or with the lumber loader. Likewise with the beacon tower I have the bulb separately.

http://s462.photobucket.com/us...nXVII/library/Trains

What do you all think?

Pretty nice looking 226 and tender. The cars are around 41-42, judging from the blackened journal boxes.

After an initial inspection of the supplied photos, your prewar Lionel shows promise. Your Christmas stocking may contain more cash than candy this year. As stated by others above, if you have a complete set with all appropriate boxes, I would keep such set intact. Pricing is between you and ultimately, the high bidder. Your prewar Lionel auction should be fun to watch, good luck on whatever course you take.

Most Lionel prewar collectors would be absolutely delighted to own those trains. I see you are a recent member of this board. If you have an interest in Lionel trains, KEEP THEM. It will be a very long time before you would be likely to have an opportunity to own a set that desirable again.

If you want to sell them, take your time, and get top dollar.

C W Burfle posted:

Most Lionel prewar collectors would be absolutely delighted to own those trains. I see you are a recent member of this board. If you have an interest in Lionel trains, KEEP THEM. It will be a very long time before you would be likely to have an opportunity to own a set that desirable again.

If you want to sell them, take your time, and get top dollar.

Your really screwing this up here CW!

Your really screwing this up here CW!

I don't believe in taking advantage of people.
Folks often write about bringing people into the hobby.
Being honest with people and telling them what they have is one of the ways to encourage people to join in.

I've made plenty of mistakes selling things that I wish I held (not that I loose any sleep).
Most of them can be replaced (if I so desire), but usually  in lesser condition at much higher prices.
One was so scarce that I have never seen another.

You can buy reproductions, but nobody can travel back in time, and make more prewar Lionel trains.

C W Burfle posted:

Your really screwing this up here CW!

I don't believe in taking advantage of people.
Folks often write about bringing people into the hobby.
Being honest with people and telling them what they have is one of the ways to encourage people to join in.

I've made plenty of mistakes selling things that I wish I held (not that I loose any sleep).
Most of them can be replaced (if I so desire), but usually  in lesser condition at much higher prices.
A few were so scarce that I have never seen another.

You can buy reproductions, but nobody can travel back in time, and make more prewar Lionel trains.

I was just kidding anyhow! I've been talking with him and told him straight out I wasn't going to make an insulting offer. Maybe it works out, maybe not. No big deal. I've passed on some trains/accessories I've never seen before and still kick myself over. Not over anything I've ever sold. I am a hoarder and sell almost nothing. Only newer stuff I acquire in deals and don't want. When I die it's going to be a mess for someone.

I'll tell you what WILL make you lose sleep. I've been deer hunting all fall here in Upper Michigan. Passed on some small ones. This last Friday afternoon it happened. A big buck coming my way. Nice easy shot and my scope is right on. Pulled the trigger my muzzloader just sizzled, then after delay went off. I couldn't believe it. Didn't get it. THAT has me losing sleep. I replay it in my mind at least every ten minutes, including when I should be sleeping.

C W Burfle posted:

You can buy reproductions, but nobody can travel back in time, and make more prewar Lionel trains.

Some more reasons to consider keeping them:

• Properly maintained they can run another 70 years (as opposed to locos using circuit boards)
• Fairly easy to maintain
• They were made in the USA
• Why not have originals instead of reproductions? 

Tom

MNCW posted:

C W Burfle posted:

You can buy reproductions, but nobody can travel back in time, and make more prewar Lionel trains.

Some more reasons to consider keeping them:

• Properly maintained they can run another 70 years (as opposed to locos using circuit boards)
• Fairly easy to maintain
• They were made in the USA
• Why not have originals instead of reproductions? 

Tom

I doesn't sound like he wants to keep them if you read his post. But for me, that holds true.

I was just kidding anyhow!

I thought that was probably the case.
I am sorry I used your joke as the launching point for a soapbox speech.
The important point was that he should think twice before he sells them.

I doesn't sound like he wants to keep them if you read his post.

At the time, I didn't want the stuff I  regret selling either.

I really don't like to see someone sell an engine an tender separately.and I've been looking for a 226E, preferably  one that needs TLC to better fit my budget. And I may end up getting an engine by itself.

Gentlemen and any ladies out there,
Thanks again for the replies.
As much as I'd love to keep them, they're just not my cup of tea.
I have modern stuff replicating the prototypes around the country I've seen and lived around(UP, BNSF, NS, etc..)
Reason I'm asking here is I'd rather them go to a collector or someone who will run them, etc...
I'm going to take pics of everything before I get them listed.
I'm not planning to separate the tender from the engine.
As far as I can tell, there is no specific "set" that these comprise when they were ordered.

why not list the trains for sale on here?

"there is no specific set..."

A prewar set label somewhat hidden by brown masking tape, if so, is there a prewar set expert with the correct set content information?

I will be gosh darned...
You're right.
I peeled the tape up extremely carefully.
It states Outfit 191W.
I looked up 191W and came up with this:

OUTFIT No. 191W (1938-39)
226E locomotive, 2226W tender, 2815 tank car, 2816 hopper, 2817 caboose, eight curved track, three straight track, RCS track, 67 whistle controller.

I have all of that except the track maybe. A lot of track was thrown out because it was rusted to the point of ridiculousness.
So it looks like a 191W set was bought and then added on to.

Any idea what a 191W outfit set would be worth? Would the lack of track be a deal killer?

Thanks again!

226/2226W sets...
from 1939, Outfit No. 191W  w/ 2816, 2815 & 2817.
from 1940, Outfit No. 261W  w/ 2816, 3811 & 2817.

cheers...gary

ShadowXIX posted:

...

Any idea what a 191W outfit set would be worth?

$27.50 in 1939.

"Would the lack of track..."

The lack of track would not be a deal killer, as others have stated, overall condition of the set to include condition of trains and their individual boxes will determine actual value.

Boxes - any stains, writing, tears, labels, tape or missing flaps?

Engine and rolling stock - operational, rust, missing parts, scratches, attempted restoration (repo parts, paint touch up)?

There are other factors to consider, but if I wanted to resell your 191W, (using the TM prewar price guide), I would offer or bid  five to seven hundred dollars based on condition. If I wanted to own your 191W, I would offer or bid more, again,  based on condition.

Take lots of pictures and good luck...

   It may not be your thing, but I'd test it's appeal on some family before letting it go too. I've lost sleep over a few things let go of by family without mention. Those hunts are likely to never be successful

(The rack will be bigger next season )

Wow - this is a REALLY nice set. You don't see many in this condition, and condition commands a higher price. Boxes are OK, have some of the torn end syndrome thats common with 80 year old boxes. That 226 is a fine piece, if you sell, and show the boxes, it should command a pretty good price. Cars are exceptionally nice too.

Jim Waterman