Lots of non retired people getting laid off. Going to be interesting to see the economics of October.
For all to know the YORK FAIR GROUNDS has turned into a triage center for the Corona virus. They are using the Orange Hall as a hospital. Prayers for all the medical workers there.
AlanRail posted:Statistically for every person that stays "sheltered" and "distanced" for three weeks 95 people stay alive.
think of all the people that will live because this meet was cancelled.
Better go check those statistics. You're saying that if 3.4 million people shelter then we can keep the entire US population of 327 million alive. I doubt it.
MAYBE the reverse is meant: for every 95 people that shelter, one death from the virus can be prevented.
To keep this train related and assuming that TCA has about 15,000 members, AlanRail says that if 158 of them stay home for 3 weeks then all of the others will be safe.
AlanRail posted:Statistically for every person that stays "sheltered" and "distanced" for three weeks 95 people stay alive.
think of all the people that will live because this meet was cancelled.
As a former mathematics major, given the newness of this particular coronavirus, the current lack of adequate testing, questions around the validity of the current data, the rapidly evolving numbers, and other factors, I would seriously question the statistical validity of any conclusions about it at this point. They are only estimates.
The social distancing protocols from the federal and state governments make complete sense. However, even if they are followed, how effective they are in any particular situation is also impacted by how many people who attend a particular event or are in a particular area actually have the coronavirus or are a carrier of it.
So, there is no accurate way to measure what impact the cancellation of the April York Meet would have had on members who otherwise may have attended it. What we do know is that those who may have attended predominately would have been in the high-risk category.
Pat
I thought the idea of day 3 was to open to paying public to get the casual "tire kickers" interested in renewing childhood train interest (or becoming/renewing a TCA member), or find some item for the once a year Christmas layout etc.
rrman posted:I thought the idea of day 3 was to open to paying public to get the casual "tire kickers" interested in renewing childhood train interest (or becoming/renewing a TCA member), or find some item for the once a year Christmas layout etc.
Nope.
Changed to 3 days at least 6 or 7 years ago, maybe more. 1/2 day Thursday, all day Friday and 1/2 day Saturday. Previously it was all day on Friday and 1/2 day Saturday.
Paying public started last year, Saturday only and in the Dealer Halls, only.
I always thought that adding Thursday hurt the Bandit Meets, whether or not that was intentional, I don't know
For those few that still don't know why the ED went to 3 days, It was to kill the bandits meets. It worked to some extent.
eddie g posted:I don't think that any OGR people would be interested in doing anything with the TCA.
I don't know what this comment is about or how it was meant but let me put a little perspective on our relationship with TCA. OGR has a good relationship with TCA and in fact promote them in as many ways as we can and when we can through the magazine and here on the forum. Some of you are up in arms because our Editor, like almost every other Editor I know, voices his opinion. Just because of that, you make a statement like this above....? I can tell you that each of the partners of OGR are not only members of the TCA but we support their efforts to promote the hobby. There is a standing offer to the York officials that OGR will help promote the York meets to bring in new members and/or to promote it to the public. All they have to do is contact me....
Well said Alan. We are all about trains, why would there be issues, bad blood or any other kind of stuff going on? Heck, at the NJ Hi-Railers last year for the 50th Anniversary someone said(was it Andy) that we are all good friends speaking about Ryan and the other folks at Lionel since they are on the road seeing each other all the time going to all different places. I can't imagine that our hobby is special in that regard as I would like to believe that other such industries it is like that. We all have to rub elbows with each other one time or another, so why not just be the best person you can be, I know I've met a great number of people that fit that description and haven't met bad apples yet
Oh God, now I know this bug is serous, WE need to find a cure before the fall meet or there maybe other medical issues, deep depressions, men walking around crying, heads being banged on walls, going to bed holding trains in the fetal position. Or the worst of all scenarios, Watching TV with the wife while she tells you about her soap operas! AAAHHHHHH!!!!
This came in the mail today. Guess it’s a souvenir now. 
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J 611 posted:This came in the mail today. Guess it’s a souvenir now.
Hopefully they will just honor these in October. No sense in providing refunds and then making people sign up for Oct. meet all over again.
RadioRon posted:J 611 posted:This came in the mail today. Guess it’s a souvenir now.
Hopefully they will just honor these in October. No sense in providing refunds and then making people sign up for Oct. meet all over again.
That’s true. I’d say they should offer that option. And if you want a refund that should be made available if you don’t plan to go in October.
RadioRon posted:J 611 posted:This came in the mail today. Guess it’s a souvenir now.
Hopefully they will just honor these in October. No sense in providing refunds and then making people sign up for Oct. meet all over again.
I feel that any member who has already paid for admission, tables, or booth space at the now-defunct April 2020 Meet should just "write it off" and consider it as a donation to the Eastern Division's coffers. They likely took a bit of a financial hit in planning for and organizing the April meet, and since the costs to members are very modest to begin with, it certainly would be a nice gesture to just kiss it off at this point. Besides, if/when the Oct. Meet becomes a reality, the ED will certainly need as much financial help as they can get for promoting and organizing the event. If you have enjoyed the Eastern Division's hospitality in the past, as many or most of us have, it might be the right time to give a little back.
I agree. I will not be requesting a refund from EDTCA. I only had my admission and one table, so my $35 is fine as a "no strings attached" donation as far as I am concerned (I don't want them to go through any cost to send me one of those donation letters either(won't be trying to claim it on my taxes), that takes some level of resources on their end too). I would certainly understand the dealers who pay for huge booths trying to get their money back though, since they obviously have a lot more than $35 invested in their registration.
There is no way they will be able to use the April badges though, since they were sent out. Assuming they do issue refunds (which seems probable for those that seek it), there would end up being a few people who tried to use their badge, even if they claimed a refund. Most people would be more honest than that, but unfortunately not all.
Edited, 3-28-20, as the most recent info on the EDTCA website make most of my discussion above irrelevant or incorrect, since they are doing exactly what others suggested regarding honoring April badges in October. At a later time (plenty of runway before October) I will need to inquire to find out what they did regarding table holder badges. I suppose it's possible they never sent them out, I did not receive mine.
-Dave
Allan, I will make you a bet that the April Badges will be honored at the October Meet, and if there is no October meet, they will be honored at the April 2021 Meet. If I am wrong, I will buy a subscription to your magazine for 1 year. If I am right, you give me a free 1 year subscription.
I think your right Eddie. Probably will give you a dated label to put over April, and done.
eddie g posted:Allan, I will make you a bet that the April Badges will be honored at the October Meet, and if there is no October meet, they will be honored at the April 2021 Meet. If I am wrong, I will buy a subscription to your magazine for 1 year. If I am right, you give me a free 1 year subscription.
Can't make that bet, Eddie. Bets are only made with current subscribers who are already supporting the magazine. 
But you are probably right about the April registration being honored in October (if there is an October meet). I'm just say that it would be nice, even if that is the case, for folks to re-register in October just to provide a bit of additional support and "thanks" to the Eastern Div. for what they have had to go through. I'm sure some--myself and our OGR team included--will do that voluntarily.
To paraphrase something I've read on this forum... If you can't afford to eat the $20 admission, you can't afford trains.
Not to argue the point but the fall meet depends on how fast this wuhan virus bug will go away. Drugs are being evaluated right now and if they prove successful in two months things could return to normal. In the aftermath of this crisis, considering the effects on some of the attendees finances, health and add in the fear factor; a two day event might seem the most cost effective and may make the most sense. I also don't see how the badges for the spring event won't be honored for fall. You can't just take peoples money and not provide anything.
eddie g posted:Allan, I will make you a bet that the April Badges will be honored at the October Meet, and if there is no October meet, they will be honored at the April 2021 Meet. If I am wrong, I will buy a subscription to your magazine for 1 year. If I am right, you give me a free 1 year subscription.
You are missing a great read every couple months Eddie
Dave Nichols posted:I think your right Eddie. Probably will give you a dated label to put over April, and done.
Why would they do that and incur that expense Dave? IMHO they will just accept April badges in October.
Someone suggested that some TCA members will request refunds and then use their April badges anyway - always scammers I guess. This can be avoided by ED not giving refunds unless the April badge is returned first.
Stay safe, healthy and be ready to enjoy the October York experience
Just wonted to let you guys know, I had prepaid reservations at the Comfort Inn Lancaster at Rockvale for April23 rd and the 24th, that where made via Travelocity and I just spoke to the Hotel and they rescheduled me for 10/22 through 10/24 at no additional charge. In short they where kind enough to make me whole. 
As far as I'm concerned the Eastern Division can keep my registration fee that I paid. Their cost goes on regardless.
I do have one idea that they can do to make us whole; how about a special meet box car offering at a reasonable price for the members who lost our registration fees. They can call it the "Meet that never was CAR"! ( How about a TCA logo on it's side with a picture of a hobo with his pockets pulled inside out along with a caption reading, " WE Don't need no Stinking Fees"
gg1man posted:.........................; how about a special meet box car offering at a reasonable price for the members who lost our registration fees. They can call it the "Meet that never was CAR"!
That brings up an interesting thought I had not yet pondered.
I wonder what will come of the MTH April 2020 York Box Car. I don't have a clue how far in advance they are produced, but I would have to think they were already made(?) and at the least "on the water", unless MTH has this car on some sort of accelerated production schedule each meet and they fly them all in. That seems unlikely for a simple boxcar.
Time will tell. Obviously not the first thing I expect anyone to be worried about at this point, but you made me think.
-Dave
If MTH gets stuck with them they can send me an e-mail and I will be glad to order one because I'm such a loyal CUSTOMER. 
I don’t really care if the badges are honored in October or if they issue refunds. I’ll buy a new one and go either way.
gg1man posted:If MTH gets stuck with them they can send me an e-mail and I will be glad to order one because I'm such a loyal CUSTOMER.
I'd suspect a fair number would, especially if they've got a full set up to now!
-Dave
J 611 posted:I don’t really care if the badges are honored in October or if they issue refunds. I’ll buy a new one and go either way.
ROCK ON 611, same here.
laz1957 posted:For all to know the YORK FAIR GROUNDS has turned into a triage center for the Corona virus. They are using the Orange Hall as a hospital. Prayers for all the medical workers there.
What I saw was they are using the orange hall as a testing facility. Has that changed?
I have never been to York. I will try to go in October if my other train events are cancelled. I am signed up for the TCA National Convention in June and the NMRA/SONC National Convention in July. I would like to see the current situation resolved by this summer and certainly by October.
I think it is important to support the organizations, publications and vendors who support our hobby. That is the reason I belong to the TCA and NMRA, subscribe to OGR and several other model railroad magazines, and buy from vendors who sponsor this forum. NH Joe
Forest posted:laz1957 posted:For all to know the YORK FAIR GROUNDS has turned into a triage center for the Corona virus. They are using the Orange Hall as a hospital. Prayers for all the medical workers there.
What I saw was they are using the orange hall as a testing facility. Has that changed?
HI FOREST,
According to the Evening Sun, the Fair grounds are being used as a drive through testing site. Need a doctors referral to be seen.
https://www.eveningsun.com/sto...pan-open-coronavirus
To handle a growing surge of patients, testing will be open from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. daily at the fairgrounds. Patients must have a referral.
The historic York fairgrounds that have been home to countless local traditions and memories will soon be a drive-thru for patients who need to be tested for the coronavirus.
To meet the growing surge of patients who should be tested for COVID-19, WellSpan Health at 7 a.m. Friday will open an outdoor testing location at the York Expo Center.
Buy Photo All barriers lead to the York Expo Center where testing will be conducted, March 18, 2020. (Photo: Cameron Clark, York Daily Record)
"The York Expo Center offers us a larger, centrally located area to conduct testing more quickly and efficiently," said spokesman Ryan Coyle. "In addition, it will allow us to more safely test people while they remain in their vehicles – offering a convenient and safer testing area for patients and our care teams."
WellSpan's plans emerged the same day the state Department of Health announced positive COVID-19 test results for two York County patients. Those patients were WellSpan patients, Coyle said, but the health system is not disclosing the facility where they were treated.
First death: Pa. reports its first death of a patient related to the coronavirus
Confirmed cases: York County has its first coronavirus cases as plans made for drive-thru testing
Buy Photo Pylons are set up directing traffic to the testing area at York Expo Center, March 18, 2020. (Photo: Cameron Clark, York Daily Record)
The health system's new testing location is not for walk-in patients. It is to serve patients who were previously evaluated by a clinician and recommended for testing.
"Our care teams will accept physician referrals through WellSpan’s Epic electronic health record or through a printed referral note from a licensed medical provider," Coyle said.
WellSpan teams will be at the fairgrounds from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. daily to test those patients as they drive up in their vehicles.
eddie g posted:Allan, I will make you a bet that the April Badges will be honored at the October Meet, and if there is no October meet, they will be honored at the April 2021 Meet. If I am wrong, I will buy a subscription to your magazine for 1 year. If I am right, you give me a free 1 year subscription.
EDDIE
If you don't have a subscription to support OGR, you have a lot of nerve using the forum to post your mostly negative and very little positive options on THE OGR DIME!
BUY A SUBSCRIPTION! IF YOU CANT AFFORD ONE, YOU CANT AFFORD TRAINS !
Sound familiar?
techman
eddie g posted:I don't think that any OGR people would be interested in doing anything with the TCA.
Hi Eddie, I don't get that line of thought at all! 
eddie g posted:Allan, I will make you a bet that the April Badges will be honored at the October Meet, and if there is no October meet, they will be honored at the April 2021 Meet. If I am wrong, I will buy a subscription to your magazine for 1 year. If I am right, you give me a free 1 year subscription.
Eddie, with all the services this magazine has provided us over the years your not at lest a digital subscriber?????????!
MartyE posted:Allan with all due respect, I think they need to keep whatever plan they have in place. This is not time to over complicate things especially when no one knows for sure what the fall will bring. Planning an extravaganza could only lead to a bigger financial hit for them and the TCA membership that we all cannot afford right now. Let's just hope we have a fall show. Once we get closer maybe then they could add a perk or 2 during the regularly scheduled meet but for now it's time to keep it as planned. It's always easier to make big plans with someone else's money. Right now we all need to tighten our belts.
I applaud the EDTCA, it's membership, and volunteers for a great meet every year. I did feel they were slow to cancel but that past now so let's move on.
Hi Marty, I get your point but it is times like these that dynamic thinking is needed. Allan earned his bones at the helm of this and other such organizations. He obviously has learned that when others are panicked the leaders need, more than ever to start being creative. Thanks Allan!
GG1 , all theses things you bring up today have been hashed and rehashed all week. No need to go through the pages and stir the pot.
gg1man posted:Hi Marty, I get your point but it is times like these that dynamic thinking is needed. Allan earned his bones at the helm of this and other such organizations. He obviously has learned that when others are panicked the leaders need, more than ever to start being creative. Thanks Allan!
It's times like this if you'll be lucky if anyone can come due to lack of disposable income. My dues are due to be paid for the TCA this month but they won't be until I'm sure I'll have a job. Their best bet is just to keep the course and hope they have anyone there with money to spend.
Ya know, bottom line is it is WAY too premature to even be debating anything related to the October Meet. Nobody--and I do mean nobody--has a clue about how long this China Virus will be with us, or to what extent it will affect the overall population. Ditto for knowledge about any possible treatments or vaccines, with the latter likely being, according to most authorities, about a year away. Let's just hope that there is a viable and safe treatment that materializes before that, and hopefully even before summer. Some of the very best minds in the world are working on that right now.
So, we're looking forward to an event that is about 6-1/2 months away. We can, and do, all hope that what we are experiencing now--today--will be something we look back on in a couple of months, but who can say for sure?
All I know is that the April York Meet was cancelled; a decent train meet I was hoping to sell at in Salem, OH, at around the same time was cancelled; and the National Garden Railway Convention in Nashville, to be held the first week in June, and for which I am registered to attend, is very much in the uncertain column, with a final decision to be made the first week of April (according to my sources). It's kind of shaping up to be a good year to not really plan to go anywhere, and that doesn't even take into account all the economic uncertainty.
We'll make it through these difficult times, but we sure don't at this point know when.
Thank you Allan. Perfect response.
