April York 2016 Legacy Users Group Summary

Thanks for the re-cap, Marty! We appreciate everyone's input, suggestions and support!

Thanks for the summary, MartyE. There are still a few High Rail "secret" features being worked on. Stay tuned.

I really hope in the fall to have the video return.  Our photographer had prior commitments.  I would have preferred a  more detailed report but work this week has been brutal and doesn't look good for the coming weeks.

Theres not gonna do factory training ? Man that's insane . So no schools to make techs ., sigh 

jojofry posted:

Theres not gonna do factory training ? Man that's insane . So no schools to make techs ., sigh 

I'll be 100% honest with you.  I'm not sure if that was Mike being Mike or if he was serious.  He did mention that he is looking to hire a video editor to do the repair videos.

I sure hope Mike was joking.  How could Lionel not have trained service techs?  I buy from my LHS because they have a good repair person trained by Lionel.  

MartyE posted:

jojofry posted:

Theres not gonna do factory training ? Man that's insane . So no schools to make techs ., sigh 

I'll be 100% honest with you.  I'm not sure if that was Mike being Mike or if he was serious.  He did mention that he is looking to hire a video editor to do the repair videos.

Why don't they charge people like mth does .. They don't loose money and they get more techs .. It's a no loose for them.. It's insane that no one can go to school .. There's a lot of willing people wanting to learn. Some days I wonder . 

jojofry posted:

Why don't they charge people like mth does .. They don't loose money and they get more techs .. It's a no loose for them.. It's insane that no one can go to school .. There's a lot of willing people wanting to learn. Some days I wonder . 

He mentioned the term "herding cats in NC".  It sounded partially like the problem for Lionel was offering the class often enough for interested dealers to send techs with different scheduling challenges (or maybe the challenge was offering the training often enough for the number of techs involved - wasn't 100% clear).

-Dave

jojofry posted:

MartyE posted:

jojofry posted:

Theres not gonna do factory training ? Man that's insane . So no schools to make techs ., sigh 

I'll be 100% honest with you.  I'm not sure if that was Mike being Mike or if he was serious.  He did mention that he is looking to hire a video editor to do the repair videos.

Why don't they charge people like mth does .. They don't loose money and they get more techs .. It's a no loose for them.. It's insane that no one can go to school .. There's a lot of willing people wanting to learn. Some days I wonder . 

MTH does not charge to attend their ASC classes, you just have to provide your own transportation and housing.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

jojofry posted:

MartyE posted:

jojofry posted:

Theres not gonna do factory training ? Man that's insane . So no schools to make techs ., sigh 

I'll be 100% honest with you.  I'm not sure if that was Mike being Mike or if he was serious.  He did mention that he is looking to hire a video editor to do the repair videos.

Why don't they charge people like mth does .. They don't loose money and they get more techs .. It's a no loose for them.. It's insane that no one can go to school .. There's a lot of willing people wanting to learn. Some days I wonder . 

MTH does not charge to attend their ASC classes, you just have to provide your own transportation and housing.

Oh I thought it was 250.00 my bad .I got bad information then. 

They're gonna do classes, they're not gonna do classes, they're gonna do classes, they're not gonna do classes. Make up your fricken mind already and stop messing with the people that really want Lionel training. I am looking for trainig that theyre not going to put into youtube videos like board information, troubleshooting and schematics

Thanks Marty for the report and all you do, one thing that Mike stated which is very true in relation to service is that the trains of 30 years ago or earlier are 80 percent mechanical and 20 percent electronics, fast forward and the trains are now 80 percent electronics and 20 percent mechanical.So how many techs are verse in both or just one side of expertise. That being said would the average person with no formal electronics background or education, its not just plug and unplug boards, pass the class! Food for thought.

thanks martye!!!!

Nice job, Marty!  Thanks for handling everything alone...again!  I hope to be there in October.

Best,

Don, I have been to a great many schools in my life.  The Lionel school was very involved.  Mike Reagan taught every class personally and I learned from the best.  Three sessions a day.   I had to study board pin outs for months before the school started.  It has all paid off.    The documents I received from Lionel has been very helpful fixing Lionel trains.  You are not allowed to buy the documents unless you pass the class.  The same goes for the board tester.  I value both very much.

It would be nice if they'd have the classes again.

You would be in your element John.  

MartyE posted:

 Mike discussed the features many folks don’t use. Such as the 20+ levels of smoke, RR speeds, and TrainLink.

 

But I use all of these every operating session.  The TrainLink is great for the vision reefer.  If Lionel released more cars like the reefers and tankers, I'm sure this would get used a lot more.  I think the problem is there just isn't much product that even uses the TL, so of course it isn't used much.  Add the ability to make adjustments to MUed locomotives with it, and I think you'd also get more use out of it.  I'm still working on learning and using the 20+ smoke levels.  I must still be doing something wrong as when my steamers sit idle or have been running at the same speed for 5 min, the smoke just about vanishes, even after I just add fluid.  So I think Lionel could work on making the smoke units do better at maintaining smoke output and the levels more noticeable, then that'd get more use.  As for RR speeds, that's how I run them.  I hate the fact that I can't use them with some control settings, like in Cab-1 mode.  I'd rather have full stop added to the speeds along with a + and - button and remove the red knob on the remote. But then I am a father that ends up running trains after work while holding the baby who seems to want that big red thingy badly so he's always reaching over and bumping it.

So I guess I'm saying I'd hate for Lionel to remove these features as they would reduce my enjoyment as they are pretty much what sold me on Legacy control.

Mike emphasized they are not removing them. Just that the average users don't necessarily use them. 

Okay, good to hear.  But then it gives more proof that I'm not an average person...

You can tell Mike that this user loves those features, no matter how odd it make me.

As always thank you for the report MARTY E. 

MartyE posted:

Mike emphasized they are not removing them. Just that the average users don't necessarily use them. 

I can see people not using all the features.  As I bought new engines, I was so busy enjoying the looks and sounds of the new engine, you forget what features every engine can do.  Recently, I had only one engine out of the box and rediscovered many of these great features.  Like Train Link.  

Remember to comment, for those who attended, on how the food was and the buffet vs serving.  Since I can't eat I don't know how it was.  I did have many positive comments through out the day after the meeting so I just want to get a good feel for when we start planning for October.  Again if we do the buffet we will have to be a little more stricter on head counts.

Thanks

I liked the buffet a lot.  The food was good, too.  While I never had a problem with the service in the past, I do know that other have, and that with people arriving at all different times, I can easily see how it could get confusing for the servers.  I think the buffet is the way to go from now on.

My only additional comment was that, while I heard that a gratuity was built into the price of the breakfast, and even if this is true, I still think we should be given the opportunity to tip more - those ladies do a good job.  They did put out a tip jar at the end (after a number of people had already left), and I contributed, but maybe you should add a remark on the matter to your closing statements next time so that more of us have the opportunity.  I think the ladies deserve it.

Andy

MartyE posted:

Mike emphasized they are not removing them. Just that the average users don't necessarily use them. 

I guess that makes those of us that do use a lot of the features "above-average" Legacy users...  

Andy

Andy Hummell posted:

My only additional comment was that, while I heard that a gratuity was built into the price of the breakfast, and even if this is true, I still think we should be given the opportunity to tip more - those ladies do a good job.  They did put out a tip jar at the end (after a number of people had already left), and I contributed, but maybe you should add a remark on the matter to your closing statements next time so that more of us have the opportunity.  I think the ladies deserve it.

Andy

That's interesting, because a similar discussion ensued at the table I was sitting at. 

I hadn't seen anything to infer the tip as being included, so when I walked in and paid, I did quick math in my head and added I think $3 for the tip when I paid at the register.  I'm assuming the lady at the register put it in a tip jar and didn't donate it to the owners of the restaurant.   I do agree that the "pay as you enter" model does make dealing with tips more challenging though.

I looked over the original thread and I suspect that level of detail got lost in the shuffle because the event evolved into the buffet after Marty's original announcement.

As to thoughts on the buffet, I thought it was fine.  I liked everything I had. 

I do tend to not try to assign "value" (bang for the buck) to a meal like this though, as I understand we are taking up a space in their restaurant for over an hour.  I spent more than I would have at McDonalds, but I also had better options.

-Dave

MartyE posted:

Mike discussed the features many folks don’t use. Such as the 20+ levels of smoke, RR speeds, and TrainLink.

Sounds like I missed a good meeting.  I just couldn't get myself psyched enough to sit in the car for that many hours with my bum leg.  I didn't think about the buffet.  While I plan to never miss another meeting, I will let you know if I can't make it as soon as I know. 

Mike's comment is interesting.  I initially did not use many of the features.  Now I use the RR Speeds with momentum set at 4/5 to slow the train to the speed I want going into sidings/ yards/ stations and accelerating when exiting them.  Once in the yard, though, I do use the knob.  Just starting to play with TrainLink with the diners, as well as some other features.

UPDATED comment

Mike resigned himself to the fact that most of the attendees of the LUG meeting were probably above average users.

MartyE,

   Thanks much for the update buddy.

PCRR/Dave

MartyE posted:

Mike resigned himself to the fact that most of the attendees of the LUG meeting were probably above average users.

As are the readers of this forum! :-)

MartyE posted:

I really hope in the fall to have the video return.  Our photographer had prior commitments.  I would have preferred a  more detailed report but work this week has been brutal and doesn't look good for the coming weeks.

Marty,

Thanks for doing this and getting out the recap.  

If you need I can do the videos.  I do some for the NJ Hi-Railers and I enjoy the occasional editing session.

I thought the buffet was a good idea.   I enjoyed the food.  I second Andy's comment.  You should mention that a top jar is out and that if we enjoyed there help we should tip.

Matt, people do not get invited to the Lionel schools because they want to go.    This is not something you get to walk into.

Marty Fitzhenry posted:

Matt, people do not get invited to the Lionel schools because they want to go.    This is not something you get to walk into.

Sort of a catch 22 in my opinion.  In pretty much every other field, you can get the training before you go looking for a job.  from what I can tell, with certified techs, you need to be referred by an authorized repair shop.  It would be nice if members of the general public had a way to sign up for classes to be certified, even if there is some fee involved to cover the expenses of the training.  I wouldn't mind being able to walk into my LHS with the paper in hand and asking if they could use some part time help, but I'm not interested in working sales for a couple of years until someone says 'Oh, how about some classes now'.  

As for the idea of training videos, I think this is great, as they will probably cover all of the common issues anyway. 

JGL

The problem with training the general public, only about 50% will make a repair without messing things up more and then complain when they do.  There are exceptions of course.  Many on this forum alone could probably easily go through and become that much better at train repair but they are the exception.

Marty, well stated.  Fixing trains is not a fun job today.  It is also not for everyone.  Without proper training it is next to impossible.  I wish everyone luck with repairs.

Marty

JohnGaltLine posted:

Marty Fitzhenry posted:

Matt, people do not get invited to the Lionel schools because they want to go.    This is not something you get to walk into.

Sort of a catch 22 in my opinion.  In pretty much every other field, you can get the training before you go looking for a job.  from what I can tell, with certified techs, you need to be referred by an authorized repair shop.

That doesn't work either, I have no problem getting referred by a Lionel authorized repair shop, but I still can't get the training.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

JohnGaltLine posted:

Marty Fitzhenry posted:

Matt, people do not get invited to the Lionel schools because they want to go.    This is not something you get to walk into.

Sort of a catch 22 in my opinion.  In pretty much every other field, you can get the training before you go looking for a job.  from what I can tell, with certified techs, you need to be referred by an authorized repair shop.

That doesn't work either, I have no problem getting referred by a Lionel authorized repair shop, but I still can't get the training.

You can't go if they are not offering a class. Sort of a catch 22. I would love to have them offer a class. I don't work at a LHS, except for seasonally doing Legacy, DCS demos and updates so I'm not sure that qualifies. I'd like the training just to make the Legacy meeting more than it is. If they do the YouTube route I'll make the best of it. 

Marty, I am sure you will be the first invited.   

MartyE posted:

You can't go if they are not offering a class. Sort of a catch 22. I would love to have them offer a class. I don't work at a LHS, except for seasonally doing Legacy, DCS demos and updates so I'm not sure that qualifies. I'd like the training just to make the Legacy meeting more than it is. If they do the YouTube route I'll make the best of it. 

BINGO!   It's pretty hard to go to the classes when there are no classes!