Are WbB E-7 units scale????

I just got a lionel scale nyc e7 aa se-each unit is 17 inches long-the detail on these is outstanding-rs 5 sounds-lots of delicate parts-you ought to order a lionel e7 cab interior  with figures .

6-24579

They are very close and they look great, for the price you can't go wrong.

Dave I have the early run of Southern E7 and I love the details Williams did with these locomotive. The only draw back are the non-scale fuel tanks and the lack of cab interiors but I will have to take Joseph idea and order me some.

The trueblast II sound set can be boring only playing the grade crossing warning when activated. I rather have the single horn to play. All that not a problem with me since I plan to upgrade them to TMCC or DCS.

SR Sean, 

I bought the Burlington E7's to run with my AtlasO CZ passenger cars. I will upgrade it to either Dcs or Tmcc like you mentioned. 

Lionels E9's at $929.00 for a AA will not get my money. 

Thanks guys....$225 delivered so I think I did OK no matter 100% scale or not.

SRR Sean....catch my FURX Intermodal???

Dave,  Several years ago I had a Williams A unit, some MTH ABA's and a Lionel B unit. All were close with the Lionel the tallest due to too much space between the trucks and the chassis. There was a recent thread with a way to lower the chassis. I photographed all three and the Williams was overall just a hair smaller than the MTH or the Lionel. The Lionel and MTH cabs were pretty close but the MTH rode at a lower height. The Williams has a lot of 'air' around the trucks due to the fuel tanks being undersized on all of their diesels.

Dave, the WBB E7 is approx. 1/2" shorter than the 3rd Rail E7, mostly behind just forward of the cab doors, other than that it's very close to scale and if you replace the molded-on grabs with wire grabs, you'll have a very nice loco.  If you put ERR electronics in it, you'll have a fine running engine.  I have both:

WBB E7:

3rd Rail E7:

The WBB E7 is a different "phase" than the 3rd Rail unit (see the number board positions on the nose).

The W E-7 is a pretty nice engine with a smooth running, if you connect both motors in series will start very gentle.

My "cons"

the gap between trucks and frame.

center bearing journal doesn't match the wheel center.

beside that is a deal!

Andre.

This is a question I have had for some time.  This thread answered it.  No comparison for me - Sunset wins hands-down.  Thanks for the comparison photos, Bob D.

Just check the windshields and surroundings. Sunset got it right.  Opinion.

I'd agree the Sunset models are a bit better LOOKING......but  I doubt I can find a pair of them nicely painted PRR green for $225 to my front door. I gotta live within my means......or I'd have a fleet of weaver, Sunset etc etc.....

I was wondering how they will look next to my Weaver E-8's......just wondering out loud really....and to see if other were happy with theirs.

Dave,

I'll add that my WBB E7 started out as an unpowered unit.  I bought it because it was a single unit (I despise having to buy the 2 A unit pair just to get 1 engine).  I bought the power upgrade kit, the ERR Cruise Commander, made the wire handgrabs, stripped and re-painted the engine, decaled it, and added a headlight.  By the time I did all this, the cost (not including any labor costs) was equivalent to what the 3rd Rail engine cost.

I'm not sure that I'd go thru all that again to have an engine I want, it's much easier to buy one already built and painted.  3rd Rail did an OUTSTANDING job on the Seaboard unit, down to the number board over the windshield and the elongated nose door handgrabs.  My WBB unit still doesn't have any sound so by the time I add that the price will jump another $100, putting it over what the 3rd Rail unit cost.

Good thing is now I have 2 different phases of Seaboard E7s

I don't own one of these but can anybody comment on the size of the windscreens - I have always thought they were slightly to big?

MIKE

I run conventional and after I re-wire the motors I don't feel the need for any other electrical mods. Not a big sound guy and the WbB units run fine in my book.  I like the higher dollar items and have a few Weaver and Williams brass locos but my 'bread and butter' locos are most often WbB or good used items. And my own 'labor' cost is called hobby time!

Mike,

The WBB windshield opening measures 1" wide by 13/32" tall, the 3rd Rail opening measures 1-1/32" wide and 3/8" (12/32") tall.  So the 3rd Rail opening is 1/32" wider but 1/32" shorter.

Dave,

I don't recall if I re-wired my WBB E7 so that both engines ran in series (to slow it down), all I know is that with the ERR Cruise Commander installed it has excellent slow speed performance and smooth starts and stops, way better than what it was originally.

I wasn't going to add sound but after hearing the 3rd Rail E7 I'm tempted to cough up the extra $$$ and buy the ERR Railsounds 4 module.  I don't care for most sounds either, but I sure enjoy the diesel sounds more than any others.  I rarely press the horn or bell anymore and can leave the crew talk off.  I also like to hear just the train as it crosses the rail joints so sometimes I turn all the sounds off.

Bob,

Thanks for all the info on the size differences. Sound like they are within my tolerances!!!  Mine should land Mon or Tue

How much does this ERR Cruise run and what are the basic installation procedures. I have a few MTH locos with cruise and it is nice. THX

dave-enjoy your pennsy e7's-they are the best buy for the buck-your taking close to a grand forva 3rd rail e7 ab set-my days of paying a grand for a yoy train are over.enjoy your engine joe

I won the lionel nyc e7 aa set in mint cond. for 425.00 with rs 5.0.very highly detailed

very fragile tiny parts.beautiful diesels-full cab. interiors w/figures-you should order cab interiors w/figures.i hate a beautiful engine with a big motor showing in the windshield-joe

Thanks!

My WbB PRR E-7's came today and I am very pleased! They look good, have not had time to test run them but will tonight. My only dig is they do sit a little high on the trucks. IF this bothers me when the units are on my layout I think I can lower them about 1/8" without much work....but I need to see what they look like next to my Weaver E-8 units.....don't want the WbB units to look like a 'lowrider'!!!

Dave,

I thought the same but the flywheels are too close to the shell.

Andre.

I have both PRR versions (green and tuscan) as well as the B&O version.  For the price, you cannot beat them!

Dave,

I just compared my 3rd Rail E7 to the WBB E7 and you're right, the WBB E7 sits 1/8" higher, there's a 1/8" gap under the chassis between the trucks, resulting in the top of the WBB unit being 1/8" higher than the 3rd Rail unit.

I have the old dummy trucks from my WBB unit and there's 2 tabs on the truck block where the motor mount is (the tabs are the pivot point on the truck blocks).  They could be trimmed down a bit, but too much and the wheel flanges will rub on the chassis floor, plus a washer/shim would have to be attached to the motor mount to keep the truck from flopping around once the tabs are trimmed.

I think someone filled the truck gap with some styrene, basically to hide the gap, not eliminated it.  That may be the answer without a lot of "machining".

I had to place a ruler on top of the WBB unit to actually see the difference in height between the 2 engines, but that gap stands out.  I may try hiding it first just to see what it looks like.

Dave,

Just found the post, forumite "marker" simply lowered the entire body:

https://ogrforum.com/t...-low?reply=lastReply

Oops, that was a fix for a Lionel engine...still might work on the WBB engine.

Thanks for the info......I'm not going to do anything right away.....but the mechanism is so simple and kinda self contained that modification is not impossible.   Either lower the body over the frame, trim those tabs on the trucks or make a new chassis. THX

Bob, Williams motor mount is like PW lionel.

the mayor issue reducing the contact tabs are the flywheel, now if you remove them could be an option.

Andre.

Could the flywheels be turned down to a smaller diameter or even the upper outside edges turned down?? Taking them off with a conventional runner like myself might be just as good and more simple!!

I see no reason they couldn't be trimmed down 1/8" using a Dremel cutoff disk.  If you're steady you may end up with a nice, straight cut.  It would be easy to mark a line on the flywheel while it's turning.  Just wrap the motor up so the particles don't get inside.

I would be inclined to think that you would want to do it with a lathe so there's much greater precision in trimming the flywheel so you have less risk getting it out of balance enough to where it causes wobbling and possibly causing long-term damage to the shaft, motor, and the gearbox.

I have a miniature or hobby lathe if I ever get to that stage. Thanks all!

I converted my Williams E-7 to PS-2 and I also lowered it approx. 3/32" by filing the shoulders on the trucks. There is no resulting interference with the flywheels. It was not necessary to add any spacers under the motor as it runs true and does not "flop around" when on the track.

Eric Hofberg

TCA, LCCA 

Chug,

Pictures will welcome!

AG.