ARE YOU CONSISTENT ???

No; I like to deal with someone who offers fair prices but has great customer service. I do 90% of my business with Dave from Mercer junction. He checks all of the engines I buy from him by oiling & lubricating them & test running them on his layout.

My goodness no, I am not consistent!  

I do give my LHS a lot of business, all my pre-orders, and anything big (locos, ZW-L, etc.) that I buy.  But if the LHS does not have it or doesn't normally carry it (as with Williams sedans, etc.) I go to one of three internet suppliers I use. 

This situation will change in a couple of months.  My LHS owners are retiring and they are shutting down the store.  There are two other LHS's in central NC - one I just don't like much and the other is a bit too far away from routine business.  So it will be mostly Nassau Hobby and M. B. Klein over the internet.  But you have to change with the times . . . 

I try my best to support my "local" store Train Express on West 86th Street in Indianapolis, but there has been a time or two when I had to go Internet because Train Express didn't have it, couldn't get it, or the difference in the price was far too great.  They have "matched" on some differences before and because I am a "regular" they routinely give me better deals!

I'm very consistent.  I will always do my big non-York purchase with my LHS first.  Only after that will I go on-line.  And then only to a few vendors that I feel have comfortable with.  Price is great but service and integrity are king.

There is one vendor that I will NEVER do business even though offering the "best price".  I get turned off by "used car salesmen tactics".

My LHS (about 2 miles away) would close today if they had to rely on my purchases, from what I read on the forum I'm a rookie when it comes to spending money on trains.  In addition, my LHS doesn't carry everything I want/need so I go to other "not so Local" HS'es (up to 25 miles away) around where I live.

My buying habits are such that I'm normally looking for a single item and when I find it I buy it, usually online.  I've only pre-ordered twice, once from an online dealer (AM Hobbies for an Atlas GP9) and once straight from the manufacturer (3rd Rail for an E7).

The guys that spend big, I can see where their loss of purchases would have an impact on a LHS, but my $25 or so every couple of months probably has no impact at all.

Mr. Morlitz is totally correct. If we want local hobby shops, we must support them with enough purchases to make a viable business. If, on the other hand, shopping for the best price is critical, don't expect any stores in your neighborhood except Walmart, Home Depot, and Starbucks. That's the future. Like it?

Scrapiron

I am fortunate to have several really good LHS's close to me.  One gets 100% of my Lionel and MTH pre-orders, and another gets my Weaver and Atlas business.  I only go to the internet, York and train shows for stuff my LHS's do not have or can not get.

Andy

The local shop gets all the business I can give them.  My online, show and auction purchases are for items I can't get locally.

I'm so consistent that this is the same position I posted sometime in 2001 when this discussion first appeared on this forum.  I may even be the person that started the thread.

Still a timely discussion.

I, like many, have no local LHS's, so it is shows, or York, or the internet...or drive

for miles.

1) LHS's first if they have it.  Sometimes they tell me they can order the item.  I politely decline because I can order it too.

2) Train shows next.  If I'm paying $5-$10 to get in the door, I'm coming home with something even if the LHS has it.

3) Internet for all things not found in #1 or #2 above.

Ron

By actual inventory 75% of my stuff comes from my LHS. About 10% for Gryzboski's which is about an hour and twenty minute drive, 5% from other HS's, and the remainder from Ebay or internet stores. (that includes the forum here as well)

I don't need a discount, I don't need a bargain...availability is the key ingredient for me. I buy from whoever has what I need to keep my hobby pursuit moving forward. No LHS even remotely worth traveling to in my area. The rare train show I might attend typically will not have the bits and pieces I usually shop for. What's left...the internet!

I remember the really first class LHS I patronized as a model railroad newbie back in the early 60's ... sadly it's just a fond memory now.

Bob

The vast majority of my purchases are made at my local train stores. I'm fortunate to have two premier train stores within a half hour of home....Gotta support them or they may not be there tomorrow.

Bob 

Back when I was buying newly made trains, and preordering, I went with my local hobby shop for a while.

I got tired of getting my orders long after folks were writing about receiving theirs on the various chat boards, and getting my merchandise in cruddy boxes (my dealer knew I was a collector). So I ordered my stuff elsewhere, and saved a little money too.

In this area, the bread and butter for the various hobby shops with an emhasis on trains is HO, not "O".

I have 3 hobby shops I visit. All 3 are in opposite directions about 3 hours away for each of them. These shops get my business when I can.....but not only do they not always have what I need/want but I can't always drive the 3 hours for an item. So I deal with a few online stores too. So I guess I support and spread the spending as needed.

No, I would not complain if my LHS went out of business. It would saden me to see the store close, just the same as when our locally owned grocer closed a couple years ago, or my favorite fired chicken place, but to blame a sale channel or modern retail buying habits for a store closing is a bolder statement than I would be willing to make.

i have a do buy from dealers all over the country, as well as my LHS, however in doing so I have quickly learned that most, if not nearly all, on-line retailers of trains are Local Hobby Shops!

There is no Amazon.com of trains with a massive buying advantage or a business model which allows them a major competitive advantage, think about your own experiences. I have made somewhat large purchases this year from the dealer who had what I wanted, when I wanted it, these purchases included, Nassau Hobby, Public Delivery Track, High Country Hobbies, Ready to Roll, and Klien, all of which from everything I can tell are a small locally owned business,all are in different states, regions of the country even, but my dollars are still supporting small businesses.

in this discussion which as noted happens every few years, why do the local buyers take the blame for store closing, rarely is the question asked, what are the margins from their suppliers, does Lionel by example give better pricing to Charle Ro than the XY&Z mom & pop hobby, thereby supporting a smaller dealer network of larger stores?

The bottom line is that price is at the top of my procrastination list, and I am consistent with this practice.

I cannot afford catalog and retail markup prices for locomotives and rolling stock, so most of my purchases are for used trains found on the OGR Forum, eBay and at train shows. My limit is $300 for a used Rail King steam locomotive, but I have fallen madly in love with some secondhand Mallets costing up to $450.

There have been some times when RMT or a local hobby shop runs a sale that's too good to pass up, but these occasions are few and far between.

I have for the last 10 years or so done most of my buying at York.  Always new stuff and that means it's from dealer tables.

Does that count as supporting a hobby shop since I would say all of them have a store "back home"?  Maybe not 'all', but the ones that I've bought from do.  It's not WHY I bought my stuff from them, it just works out that way.

- walt

If a vendor of any type offers good honest service, so long as the price is fair I will use that vendor, whether it be a hobby store or any other business or service provider. The problem, at least in my experience, is that many of the local hobby shops that close do in fact close because the service is spotty or the pricing is not at all competitive.  Another big reason is that the store does not build a web based storefront and wants to do business as if it is 1986.  So, yes, basically, I am consistent.

I miss the LHS I used to deal with.  They weren't local to me but they were brick and mortar stores - Jim Sutter and Sean Marchev.    I knew that when I ordered an engine it would be opened and tested to make sure everything worked correctly before it was shipped to me or picked up at a shwo and if there were any issues under warranty they would work with me to get the problem solved.  

Why did I start using a LHS?  I had an nightmare with an engine that went bad from a place that had the best price.  Being a newbie that's all I cared about.   Having been through that experience and having little experience at diagnosing and fixing broken trains any premium I may pay on an item is well worth the peace of mind it brings.

I've recently learned the LHS very near to me is now carrying the brand of trains I'm particular too so I will be giving them my business when I'd like to purchase larger ticket items as I've had only good experiences with them the few times I've needed my original marx or AF trains serviced.  Smaller ticket items I usually just get at train shows and tend to be items which are older and not carried in stock anymore.

--Greg

I do NO business with LHS's...primarily because there are none near me of any value (SF Bay Area).  I'd drive a distance if there were decent ones around here.  The only "good one" (Franciscan Hobby) just went out of business. Pretty much all of my purchases are made on the internet.  The only LHS that I am semi-loyal to is the Train Shack in Burbank, CA.  My son goes to UCLA and...whenever I get a chance...when we go down to visit him...I go there and make purchases.  Those opportunities are far and few between.  Matt

When I lived in the Chicago area, I had a fantastic LHS that went out of their way to treat my well. There was no reason to go anyplace else.

The LHS is no longer a reality for me as the closest dealer is 2 1/2 hours away. However, one of the big guys is my closest dealer and they have been super to deal with as well. So I have no reason to go anyplace else.

So Gerry, to answer your question, I have a history of finding a good dealer and sticking with them.

No, I'm not very consistent. I spread my business through a number of different channels. Auction, forum, and every once in a while I will order from a few dealers who I trust.

I will be loosing my LHS where I grew up this coming summer. Not because of economy, but because the owner has put in 47 years and is ready to retire. I mourn the passing of the shop, because that's where I fell in love with the Lionel brand. That shop treated me great growing up, and I made every major purchase through them until I moved to Lafayette in 2007. Lafayette has no LHS, so I pretty much look to price and convenience to make my purchases.

Bottom line for me, and why I posted the original 1953 memo is because there are way too many unhappy owners and participants in this hobby. Whether people intend to or not their attitude is conveyed through their interactions with their customers. I feel that the memo underlines an important points of treat people well, don't put down the competition, and don't ignore the kids that participate in this hobby. I understand that a lot has changed since 1953, but there is no reason business related or not why these basic ideas should have changed.

Well I do eat my oatmeal every day and a bit  of wheat.. er.. oh!

No LHS here, way to far. I purchase most of my items for the great members here on OGR.

As far the Big Boy I may purchase one from a forum member so he can upgrade to the VBB...not sure yet.

I buy a lot and I am very price conscious.  I buy from a couple of large retailers who consistently give me competitive prices and consistent service.  I did for a while try buying from a more or less local store but after 3 or 4 misadventures (mostly "forgetting" to pre-order items for me) they're off my list.  This store has the lowest price for pre-order items I could find but the level of service didn't make it worth it.   I also buy frequently from this forum as I like the idea of purchasing from folks I "know", you find items here that are hard to find out in the wild and the prices usually can't be beat.

All in all I'd say I'm "influenced" by price but it's not the only factor.

This kind of question always leads to long-winded philosophical marketing theory discussions, so I’ll add to the noise. My short take on this is that if Lionel, MTH, Williams, Weaver, etc. want their businesses to thrive, they need to do their part to support the LHS and not just leave it to the consumer. I’m not so sure that that is their focus though.

In sales, in which I've been gainfully employed for more than 30 years, the key phrase is "value add" and any buyer of any widget weighs many different “buying influences”, consciously or not, on a day in and day out basis, when making any kind of purchase. Most people, regardless of what the widget is, will buy from a particular seller if they feel the value they’re getting fulfills their needs but there are some who will seek the lowest price regardless. I’ve had some customers like this over the years and we in the sales game have a word for these kinds of people. (Since this is a family oriented forum I won’t say what it is but use your imagination.) Others appreciate the value added services a local dealer may supply, such as advise, technical support, repair services or in-stock inventory giving the buyer the ability to touch & feel before a purchase leading to an immediate sale with instant gratification for the buyer. Everyone factors in these buying influences differently.

Speaking for myself, I put a lot of stock into touching & feeling and most of my larger purchases have been from one of the several LHS’s in my area, but I’m certainly not looking to pay bust-out retail either. It’s tough for the LHS, everyone knows that, and they are vital to the health of the model railroading hobby in general, regardless of scale.  But the train manufacturers have to realize though that a hobby shop can choose or not choose to carry trains of any kind and they need to do a better job supporting them, mostly with better pricing so they can maintain their margins, and their channel of distribution. There are a lot of hobbies out there.

When I new, back into the hobby, about 15 years ago I bought almost exclusively from a LHS.  At that time my purchases where primarily MTH starter sets. 

As I grew into the hobby, my interest shifted to scale stuff.  Interestingly, at this point in time, I would guess that only 5-10% of what I have is either Lionel or MTH.  As most of the LHS that I have been to stock only Lionel and MTH, and have limited track/switch and scenery materials, it has been several years since I have been into a LHS.  Probably 60% of what I currently have, I picked up at great prices on the secondary market.  Probably, 95% of what I currently have, has been purchased over the internet (LHS's with a brick and stick store, eBay, this forum, or directly from Sunset/3rd Rail or RCS). I no longer make impulse buys and my purchases are pretty focused on my bucket list of things I would like to own.

I do try and buy local whenever I can, and that is the reason that the MB Klein website is usually my first choice.  Although Klein's is about 45 miles from my house, my orders are by internet (my convenience) rather than in person.

If I were to buy in person at a LHS, the LHS would have to add value to my purchase to make it worthwhile for me to pay a premium price.  This could be great service, competent repair department, or be a great place to hang out. 

It will be interesting to see how many people will pay MSRP for the new Lionel legacy engine that is a rave of various current threads, as there is a HUGH difference between MSRP and the pre-order pricing listed on these threads.  It would be one thing if the price difference was $100 - $200 on this engine, but it appears to be almost a $700 difference between MSRP and the pre-order price.    I gotta think that a lot of folks must be asking their LHS's for a discount.

Jim

I wish I had a good LHS. There are three within thirty-miles. One is strictly HO. So much that everything stocked in his store is the same. The next store caters the RC crowd. If a customer wants a train item, good luck. Lastly, this store is twenty-miles away. It's hard to get to with on street parking only.

I did not list this specialized store mainly because it carries very little to no train items. It's everyone's favorite, Hobby Lobby.

More times than not, I'm consistent. Consistently shopping on the internet. Even then I use only three hobby outlets.                                           

I have a local train shop that handles Lionel, mostly for the general public.  Lots of starter sets, some used trains, etc.  But over the years we have become good friends and he orders my Lionel items especially for me.  He does give me a great price but I don't know if it's the best price because I want to continue to support his store and I don't compare prices.

I have a different dealer/friend for MTH trains, although he is fairly new for me, the older dealer/friend closed his store.  So, when and if, MTH comes up with something I need, my buddy will get the business. 

Other than those two guys, I do buy at York and at regional shows but I virtually never buy on the internet.  Don't sell anything there, either.  Especially on used trains, I like to talk directly to the seller, discuss the item and it's condition, background and price, one to one, with him.

I feel bad, reading about all these LHS's that are being forced out of business and will do what I can to support these guys.  I'm not a fan of e-bay.

Paul Fischer

I share my train money with all my O gauge train dealers and LHS.  Not just one. 

Steve, Lady and Tex

I would love to have a LHS.  When I lived in Pennsylvania I had at least one (rural) or several (urban).  I live in the Florida Panhandle now and the nearest lhs (note the use of lower case) is over 100 miles away.

Therefore my #1 source is the Internet.  The stores and people that I buy from are not unknown.  I've traveled a lot for work and have visited 90% of them and most more than once.  The last trip I visited 10 shops and traveled a 1000 miles.

Jan

I like to think of myself as being consistent regarding train purchases.  I dealt almost exclusively with Antique Trains in Turnersville, New Jersey but when the owner passed away the shop closed and I had to search elsewhere.  I found Trains 'N Things in Vineland, New Jersey and stuck with them until the owners decided to retire and that shop closed.  Almost everything I purchased came from those two stores.  The prices at both these stores were very reasonable.  On a few occasions I won a few items off of E-Bay but those purchases were minimal in comparison with what I bought at those two hobby shops.  Now I generally buy off of the forum or bid on E-bay.  I miss the great service and the unique personalities of the owners of those two great hobby shops.  Without the great service I now search for price.   

I split my business between my LHS, a good friend that is a dealer, and a hobby shop that comes to the monthly train show at DuPage.  It's not a fair split, but then what is these days.  I will most likely wish that I had given the LHS more of my business if and when they cease business.  But it is hard to pay 205 to 30% more to the LHS.

Art

I would LOVE to have an LHS that stocked what I am into (Tinplate) and offer a small discount.  Not asking for much.

I had one but within the last couple of years it seems they have shyed away tinplate, and their main train guy has since retired.

My last order was online from JR Junction.  The price, communication, and delivery were all top-notch.  I hope to continue my relationship with them, and only wish I was local to them.

I think I'm pretty consistent. I purchase everything I can from my LHS, if they don't have it I try to order it from them. They tell me what they can't get, I then buy that stuff online, if possible from an ORG forum sponsor, if I really want it bad enough. My LHS discounts slightly from MSRP and they give me a bit more off for pre-orders.

Haven't had real good luck on ebay with train stuff, I do buy new electronic devices and things like that on ebay. Have ordered several of those items that other forum members have posted. My LHS has nothing like that and doesn't want to get into it. I have purchased a few items from forum members that were from older catalogs and out of production, again not available through my LHS. For online train purchases I try to support OGR's forum sponsors.

No, I will place pre-orders with my LHS when a new catalog comes out.  I consider "paying retail"  on brand new offerings part of the cost of ensuring there's a hobby resource I can turn to for guidance and support and service.

- Mike

Unfortunately the barn door has slammed shut for me on reachable shops.  Just about the time I got into O gauge the last "good" local shop shut down.

Also, I don't care a whit about overpriced too technical yet somehow both over and under engineered and, to judge from the forum, usually problematic products.

"Pre orders" to me are a joke.  So I order what I like from the OGR buy/sell forum and various internet sellers.

Y'all who have made your own beds know who you are, so now you can lie in them and see if you can get any sleep.

Good night.

Pete

I'm consistent and realistic. I will never spend enough on a regular basis for any LHS proprietor to fawn over me. I've seen too many deals at shows and on line to blow my money in a LHS anymore. It's like buying an expensive item at a real good price in York and then seeing the same item better and cheaper two aisles over. Something happened after 1969. LHS owners became "smarter" than the customers. People came begging to them for postwar items that were escalating in value on a daily basis. It put many of them in the cat bird seat all lofty and arogant and they never got out - unless of course they went out of business. 

We lost our local shop in Richmond, Chesterfield Hobbies, last June due to retirement. It is terribly missed. I was a big supporter. I don't mind paying near list price because of the great service that was rendered. Now, I have to find a new shop.

Now, without a local shop, I suspect price will be important, because I'll have to ship it somewhere if it needs repair.

Peter