Atlas 21st Cent. Track and Poor DCS Signal. Help Requested!

SJC, I have 2 loops (37' x20') of Atlas "O" track not including my 7 track yard, 16 switches, and various sidings. I'm using 1TIU and 2 MTH Z4000 transformers. I get "10's" over my whole layout. What helped me was to remove the black coating on the center rails, makes sure that the rail joiners are tight and have the proper amount of power drops throughout my layout. I've been using Atlas "O" track and switches for over 7 years.............................RogerW.

I have two separate loops on a 9 x 17 using Atlas O. The outer loop has one hookup and a 10 DCS signal all the way around.

The inner loop has four switches and six power hookups. I get a solid 9 in the weakest areas.

What transformer are you using? I have two Z1000 bricks.

I haven't scrubbed the black off, but it is a thinner coat after a few years of track cleaning.

No problem here with track signal and I have 85 switches and around 1000 feet of track.  My drops are such that every other 40" section of track has a power feed...

Alan

Scotchbrite the center rail off and see what happens. Actually, clean all the rails. Most atlas track I've received has been filthy out of the box.

Can I suggest it could be the user who started this thread? 

It is a 4x8 layout, one loop, the one in question as I'm still waiting on track components to finish the other one, is approx. 30"x40" with one switch and one power drop. Not huge. Very basic. A Z1K is the power, never an issue. Not rocket science nor is it an issue with my electrical as the same set up powered a 12x12 tubular layout (and various other smaller setups) with one feed and 10s all around. 

The other loop, which should have the last track components delivered tomorrow, will be a standard 0-36 oval with approx. 4 straights. Again, one drop, very basic. Both should be all 10s, not ranging from no signal (Out of range/Check Track) to 10s all around a tiny loop. 

Matt;

Do you have ONE break in the center rail?

You need it or the signal loops forever and over runs itself.

Pulses at near the speed of light, the smaller loop means more overlapping of signals.

As suggested above, definitely clean well. I remember my track having a greasy film on it when I took it out of the box.

Also, make sure the track connectors are snug and crossing all gaps.

How are you connecting the wire to the loop? Are you using their power track, the wired track connectors, or your own system?

If you're using a power track section, it could be faulty.

A is hot, U is common.

Why do you refer to Ross Switches as "junk"?  Have always heard they "were the way to go".  What problems did you have with them? 

I use Atlas O track.

I would bet your problem is a loose or bad track connector.

Every once is a while, an Atlas O track connector looks fine, but the contact is not.

Use a conducting grease and check each section as you lay it.

THEN, you will know where the problem is or isn't.

Track must be scrupulously clean.

Take the black off of the center rail.

Each and every piece.

Check your rollers.

Make sure they are clean.

Scrappy

After scrapping some black off last night, I strongly believe that is my problem. I will continue to do so and I would think I should be good to go. 

In regards to Ross switches, I've been very disappointed in mine. Engines regularly derail on them, they are ROUGH (did I say they were ROUGH), and appear to just be slapped together and poorly made. Not impressed. I am re-using one on my new layout simply because it is a new-ish switch and I'm using it in a small yard so I don't anticipate problems. I wouldn't buy them again. 

I believe there was also discussion some time back about Wahl, hair clipper, oil or for that matter any light oil on the pick-up rollers. Enhanced conductivity at this critical point helps the signal. IMO.  Mike

I did some more testing and scrubbing this evening as I got all the track and can run trains. Below is a photo of the set up. I scrubbed the center rail until my thumb was sore (and not really any noticeable difference in amount of black crud) and ran the track cleaning car around. A lap around with the Multimeter shows conductivity is not a problem. A few things noticed/questions: 

*The signal strength is very poor the first lap or two around. After that, it improves dramatically. Not sure why...?

*Some engines show different readings. I would think if the signal is low in one spot, all would show the same readings? The signal is low as I get repeat softkey commands, etc. 

*Curves seem to have the most dramatic loss in signal, down to 2 and 3 in some laps while the straights (generally) show 10s. Any reason to this? 

Any and all help is much apppreciated. I've been VERY impressed with the quality of the Atlas track and would like to solve this signal issue. I've NEVER had issues like this on small/larger layouts using tubular track and Realtrax over the years. 

I'm going to stop at Home Depot today to get some 220 Grit sandpaper to really grind the black film off the center rail. Anyone else have any suggestions? Bueller? Bueller? 

I would suggest that you get something a LOT finer than 220. I use 320 "shop cloth", but those 3M hard foam sanding "blocks" in Extra Fine, work just as well.

Matt,

A few comments...

Get an LGB (or equivalent) track cleaning block and remove every bit of the blackening from the Atlas track. It is imperative that the center rail blackening on Atlas trackage be removed. It can really mess up the DCS signal.

There's no need to remove the blackening on the Ross switches. However, new Ross and Gargraves trackage comes with an oily, clear protective coating on the center rail that must be cleaned (with track cleaning solution or equivalent) and then wiped off.

Are you certain that your switches are Ross or could they possibly be Curtis or Right-of-Way switches? The three brands look very similar. If they are Ross and you bought them new (or even if they were used), I strongly suggest that you contact Ross Custom Switches (RCS). I can guarantee that they will be happy to assist you in resolving your problems with their product. I have 75 or so Ross switch tracks installed any they provide flawless operation. My Curtis and Right-of-Way switches required a bit more work to "tune".

The best way to run a DCS signal strength test is with the engine stationary (preferred) or creeping as slow as you can stand it. This eliminates most (all if stationary) physical issues that can affect DCS signal strength.

This and a whole lot more is all in "The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition", now available for purchase as an eBook or a printed book from MTH's web store site!

CLICK HERE go to MTH's web page for the book!

Thanks! 

Hot/Barry...

Thanks for the tips. The Ross switch (it is a Ross...bought it new direct from them). That never gave me problems so I never did remove the black coating. Now I see they are coated differently. 

I WILL remove the coating totally from the Atlas track. Hopefully that will clear up the issues overall. Like I said, I've NEVER had so much variation in signal. I didn't realize the best way to do the signal test was at a crawl. I was doing it at about 10MPH to keep me from falling asleep and make it easy to track down more troublesome spots. 

Thanks...I will report back later or tomorrow. 

Stopped by Home Depot on my way home this evening. Got some practically finer than a sheet of loose-leaf paper sandpaper and immediately took it to the center rail on the outer loop. Before getting called for chow, I tested a couple engines, all showed 10s around the entire layout. Did the inner loop after dinner and all was positive. I will test it a bit more tomorrow and over the weekend before I can totally rest easy but all seemed like the center rail coating was the issue. 

Thanks SJC for this post. I've learned a lot and had never read anything about removing the black from the center rail. It's on my project list! Thanks Terry

Just to be clear, When removing the black from the center rail, are you talking just on the top of the rail or EVERYTHING including the sides?? 

Only the top of the rail because THAT is what the pick-up rollers contact.

Surprisingly, I've experienced Atlas track where some pick-up rollers on the engines developed a black ring that had to be removed. 

So following SJC's example, I decided to start taking down the black on the center rail as several people described. It's working great, but now a question...

I'm using the same Atlas track as SJC, and the center rail of all but ONE piece of track is copper. That one piece is stainless steel or ? Should that piece be replaced? Has anyone else experienced this.

Not intended to be a hijack of the great info on this thread...it just never occurred to me that this would happen using this process.

Thank you, Terry

Terry,

Stainless is fine for DCS.