Atlas O Santa Fe F7 Review

Good review Jim. However, three of your photos are "IMAGE NOT FOUND".

Jack, 

Please give me a clue so that I can attempt to insert them.  I will send you an email of the entire post.

Being the author I see all the images when I open the post.

Thanks.

Close coupling looks great even with the claws.

Frame/body mounted side steps....awesome.

Enclosed fixed pilot AT NO EXTRA COST....awesome

The stripes do NOT cover the doors.... awesome.

Yeah the seams are wrong but at least the Chief decal isn't centered right over that seam like the Sunset B units. That was not the "norm".

The new replacement shells do NOT have those hideous nose grab irons that the first ones did.

At half the price of my Sunset ABBA set, even with 3 pwrd vs. 4 pwrd engines..... the will pull my SC/El Cap set just fine. 

I've got bad news for everybody using the "F7B" at the California State Railroad Museum to compare to Atlas model as that "F7B" at the museum is really a F3B

I don't know enough about F7B and F3B to tell what the differences are.

EDIT:  Some have overlap of the warbonnet logo, and some don't.  Here's a page of F7B units:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.n...?id=ATSF&mid=362

I wish people would stop using those 2 units at the museum to compare with anything. They are not even a real matching pair as delivered. 

There are some photos showing the Indian head logo crossing the seam of B units.  Usually it was on the head side, not the tail side though.  Of course as delivered there was no "Santa Fe" labeled on the B units.  Granted things moved over time as each shop did their re-paintings.  Nice fair review.  I have been a fan of Atlas products, but do not have any of the F series.  All my Atlas units are all 2nd generation hood units and solid runners.

Late Photo showing batten running through logo.  Late due to the ACI Label.

Hard to tell in this image but based on the offset of the upper vs. the lower panel spacing, it appears the logo just abuts the face of the batten on the opposite side view here.  

In this view the logo looks centered under the porthole and the logo appears to be painted aluminum.

As delivered B unit.  The scan unfortunately isn't a great blowup, but the batten runs through the logo and there is no "Santa Fe" on the B units.

Overall photo of as delivered 306LAB prior to ATSF moving the headlight into the nose to add the mars light.

Not trying to be critical, just posting these for discussion purposes.  I had a set of the Athearn HO units and they are a true benchmark in plastic. 

By the late 60's and 70's, they were all over the place. Can't use these to compare with as delivered engines. Look at the middle photo... you can see where the Chief WAS and IS

Thanks for the photos. 

Doug,

What book are your photos out of?  I need to expand my ATSF library.  I have decent books on most of the passenger cars, but only a few on the locomotives.  Obviously I have the Stephen Priest book, which is very good overall, but I'd like to add a few more.  After all, my Pennsy library is somewhere in the 30+ book range . 

Thanks!

A quick search on RR Pictures Archive finds six more F7B's with the logo not on the seam.

SPSF - Do you have a better pic of the F7B at The Cal RR Museum to prove it is an F3B?

If anybody has a picture of what these units looked like "as delivered" PLEASE step forward and post it here.

Thank You.

See my post above of 306 LAB.  That is an as delivered image.

Laidoffsick posted:

Doug,

Thanks.  Ordered.  Volume two was tempting but it's going for $280 on Amazon.  That seems a little steep! 

Santa Fe Jim, I don't -  but I remember in 1985 or 1986 when Santa Fe ran the museum train and catching it at the Stockton tower and some guys commenting that it wasn't a matching set.

http://www.rrpicturearchives.n...icture.aspx?id=64178

I can show hundreds of photos..... majority of them the logo is not on the seam, but there are quite a few where the Chief is on the seam...centered, left, right.... 

The problem with the internet search for pix is they are not old enough. When you see spark arrestors.... well to late and too many mods by then. You have to get early photos if you want to compare as delivered. Books, and The Warbonnet Magazine. They go back!

GG1 4877 posted:

Laidoffsick posted:

 

Doug,

Thanks.  Ordered.  Volume two was tempting but it's going for $280 on Amazon.  That seems a little steep! 

Yeah I haven't broke down and bought Vol 2 yet either for the same reason. I will eventually, just haven't been bitten by the bug hard enough yet. I passed on $200 and regret that now, Vol 2 is very hard to find.

Winter 1954, 330LAB. Notice the B units, engineer side vs fireman side... On the seam, not on the seam. 

And stripes over the doors

I have to see what my dad has in his library of train books. Hes got at least a couple hundred. His photo collection is pretty extensive but it covers a lot of the late 60's so none of these would help in the as delivered but man he must have 15,000 pictures if its a dozen. Ive only scanned a few thousand and havent made a dent.

Doug, thanks for your picture.  Stripes over the doors is uuuglee.

Jim, great honest and candid review!  Thanks for sharing.

Anybody have comments or video to show the performance and "updated" Railsounds?  Thanks, in advance!

David

SantaFeJim posted:

Jack, 

Please give me a clue so that I can attempt to insert them.  I will send you an email of the entire post.

Being the author I see all the images when I open the post.

 

Thanks.

Jim,

All images showing this morning. Don't know what happened last night, you're good now.

Also, interesting information about the "restored" Santa Fe "F Units" at the California State Railroad Museum. I wonder how many other museums around the nation have cosmetically "restored" some steam locomotive or diesel unit, incorrectly.

Laidoffsick posted:

GG1 4877 posted:

Laidoffsick posted:

 

Doug,

Thanks.  Ordered.  Volume two was tempting but it's going for $280 on Amazon.  That seems a little steep! 

Yeah I haven't broke down and bought Vol 2 yet either for the same reason. I will eventually, just haven't been bitten by the bug hard enough yet. I passed on $200 and regret that now, Vol 2 is very hard to find.

Doug,

I found volume two yesterday on eBay at a "fair"  -   i.e. not quite as much of a rip off and bought it it.  After all, FP45s might be in the future plus I'm sure EVERYONE wants a U30CG.

On another note, at least the Warbonnet doesn't look like this.  I picked up this HO Model Power E7 at a swap meet about 20+ years ago for its chassis as the chassis was built by Roco.  Not much prototypical to see here.

Hot Water posted:

Also, interesting information about the "restored" Santa Fe "F Units" at the California State Railroad Museum. I wonder how many other museums around the nation have cosmetically "restored" some steam locomotive or diesel unit, incorrectly.

I'd guess a lot. Just look at "restored" autos as an example.

BobbyD posted:

Hot Water posted:

Also, interesting information about the "restored" Santa Fe "F Units" at the California State Railroad Museum. I wonder how many other museums around the nation have cosmetically "restored" some steam locomotive or diesel unit, incorrectly.

I'd guess a lot. Just look at "restored" autos as an example.

After all the research I've done for 3rd Rail over the last 7 years, I have found that one should never rely on restored units for accuracy.  Made this mistake once.  Of course there are some that are done correctly, but that is not the norm.  Even the PRR Museum did not restore E7 5901 correctly and I count that museum in the top three along with the B&O museum being #1 in the US and the CA museum being #2. 

For PRR 4901, the first A-A set ordered by the RR in 1945, there is not trainphone antenna on it, which is how they were all equipped when painted Tuscan Red.  It also has many later details such as the nose ladders that didn't appear until the single stripe scheme was applied.  That's just one example of way too many.  It is understandable however.  With the kinds of budgets that some of these smaller museums have, it just isn't possible to get it all right.   

BobbyD posted:

Hot Water posted:

Also, interesting information about the "restored" Santa Fe "F Units" at the California State Railroad Museum. I wonder how many other museums around the nation have cosmetically "restored" some steam locomotive or diesel unit, incorrectly.

I'd guess a lot. Just look at "restored" autos as an example.

I hear that. Once an expensive restoration is shown to the public, everyone duplicates it, even the errors. Folks probably think that an expensive restoration equals an authentic restoration.

This is truly a tough crowd.  Having those feathers touch a bat is a mortal sin; running on Russian track gauge is overlooked.

bob2 posted:

This is truly a tough crowd.  Having those feathers touch a bat is a mortal sin; running on Russian track gauge is overlooked.

I thought we were just running on pre Civil War Southern Standard Gauge? 

Rivet counting aside, you all missed the as delivered relationship of the warbonnet logo to the Santa Fe script.  If we use the original pics from LOS for comparison, note the 4 top tips of the warbonnet feathers are positioned directly above the E or S, depending on the side.  The logo is correctly and consistently positioned dead center under the center porthole.  Given the aforementioned fails, an average rating is being generous.

Bruce

RoyBoy posted:

BobbyD posted:

Hot Water posted:

Also, interesting information about the "restored" Santa Fe "F Units" at the California State Railroad Museum. I wonder how many other museums around the nation have cosmetically "restored" some steam locomotive or diesel unit, incorrectly.

I'd guess a lot. Just look at "restored" autos as an example.

I hear that. Once an expensive restoration is shown to the public, everyone duplicates it, even the errors. Folks probably think that an expensive restoration equals an authentic restoration.

I'd bet most RR museums are doing the same thing. Those Santa Fe units in CA are great to see and great they were saved though they should not be used as reference material for as built equipment. How many museums have faux painted stuff? Aren't some of the units at the Indiana Transportation Museum painted in other road names? Was at a car show one year and there was a fabulous Metallic Blue 1970 442 with White stripes, White interior and the fancy wheels. Turned out it was originally a Green/Gold with interior of near the same color and hub caps. Who knows if any were ever built with all the do-dads it had. A truly beautiful car but not a restored car, a custom car.

brwebster posted:

Rivet counting aside, you all missed the as delivered relationship of the warbonnet logo to the Santa Fe script.  If we use the original pics from LOS for comparison, note the 4 top tips of the warbonnet feathers are positioned directly above the E or S, depending on the side.  The logo is correctly and consistently positioned dead center under the center porthole.  Given the aforementioned fails, an average rating is being generous.

Bruce

And I posted an example if each with the feathers above the E & S.

But the powers to be went their own direction.  

BobbyD poste

A truly beautiful car but not a restored car, a custom car.

  The term used these days in the auction circles for a replica of something like a W30, Yenko Chevy, or any other desirable collectors car is "Tribute".  Psycho mumbo jumbo used car speak, far more palatable than telling the buyer it's a fake.

Bruce

I want a set of THESE! 

What is the exact height of these Atlas Warbonnets above the rails? I'm interested to know how their roofs line up with passenger cars. Maybe someone could show the engines with some passenger cars.

The roofs of scale MTH and Lionel versions are about a quarter inch higher than those of passenger cars, at least aluminum passenger cars (because the engines ride too high on their trucks, probably). In the vast majority of prototypical passenger trains, the F unit engines and passenger cars were the same height (which of course looks better, too).

Laidoffsick posted:

I want a set of THESE! 

Doug,  If you are REALLY interested... This set may be for sale.

Hot Water posted:

SantaFeJim posted:

Jack, 

Please give me a clue so that I can attempt to insert them.  I will send you an email of the entire post.

Being the author I see all the images when I open the post.

 

Thanks.

Jim,

All images showing this morning. Don't know what happened last night, you're good now.

Also, interesting information about the "restored" Santa Fe "F Units" at the California State Railroad Museum. I wonder how many other museums around the nation have cosmetically "restored" some steam locomotive or diesel unit, incorrectly.

The two F units in Galveston painted ATSF are ex SP units.  They still have the nose lift rings.  And the painting is just not right.  Long live the war..., er, Black Widow!

Doug,

This video gives you a better view.  Watch at fill screen.  

looking at the "Indian" picture, both faces are different as if different artists painted them. the logos are not consistent as well. so maybe the positioning too is somewhat arbitrary and not specifically set by SF so located on each unit as each artist decided. 

i may be using the term "artist" loosely.

Dominic Mazoch posted:

Hot Water posted:

SantaFeJim posted:

Jack, 

Please give me a clue so that I can attempt to insert them.  I will send you an email of the entire post.

Being the author I see all the images when I open the post.

 

Thanks.

Jim,

All images showing this morning. Don't know what happened last night, you're good now.

Also, interesting information about the "restored" Santa Fe "F Units" at the California State Railroad Museum. I wonder how many other museums around the nation have cosmetically "restored" some steam locomotive or diesel unit, incorrectly.

The two F units in Galveston painted ATSF are ex SP units.  They still have the nose lift rings.  And the painting is just not right.  Long live the war..., er, Black Widow!

Agreed, they would look much better in widow paint.  But after what happened to the museum during Ike, I am happy they got back on their feet.