Atlas Prices

I agree the prices are climbing and pricing many folks right out of the hobby.  I wonder what that will translate to for the retailers (street price)  an O-54 was going for around $75 last I checked. 

Yikes, I have been waiting on those exact switches for a few months too. I think the MSRP was around $85 or so? Maybe the street prices won't go up that much, we can only hope? 

I must admit that Atlas has priced themselves right out of my purchasing market! I sure don't purchase their freight cars anymore.

I buy their older stuff. Big O Rolling Stock can be had for less than $60 as can a number of their early Master Rolling Stock.

Just checked their current online catalog, 129.95 for # 5 3 rail switches "wow",its not suprising Atlas has had to cancel a number of their repaint/reruns. Only the newest products appear to be selling and bear in mind like MTH and Lionel the better line products are being BTO only. Its not suprising that most remaining Dealers are reluctant to stock new models, if you want something new coming out you had better reserve it in advance,JMO

You have to shop around! Those Atlas O 054 switches are selling for $73.95 ea. at Charles Ro, right now.

John Knapp

Erie, not Eerie

I picked up a couple of 072 Wyes at York last month. Beth Marshall told me then that the pricing of "new production" was going to be significantly higher.

Gilly

I just checked JD'sTrains and he has the MSRP as $104.95 but lists them at $74.99.  They are back ordered but the list price should remain the same. 

Even if you had a lot of money, you would need a lot of room to store all of those huge O Scale freight cars. There are limits to the number they can produce and sell each year. There are limits to the number of freight cars and switches you can have.

Andrew

Yikes!!!  

Appears to be correct.  The online store has new MSRP prices that are roughly 20-25% higher than the former MSRP prices still quoted in their price sheet linked off their 3-rail track page.  So this is definitely a recent price hike.

A few examples...

• O72 and O54 turnouts: $105 vs $85  (+24%)
• #5 turnouts:  $130 vs. $108  (+20%)
• Double Slip:   $265 vs. $220  (+20%)
• 40" rigid flex track:  $26.50 vs $22. (+20%)
• O108 curve:  $19 vs. $15.50. (+24%)

We'll probably hear that it's due to increased Chinese labor costs.  

I can't imagine that folks building a brand new layout are now going to pay the price premium over Ross/Gargraves, who already have a much better reputation from a reliability standpoint -- not to mention their products are built right here in the USA.

At this point, it's safe to say Atlas-O is pricing themselves right out of the market with this recent move.  The only prayer folks have would be if Atlas-O is simply following in Lionel's footsteps with their most recent inflated MSRP model, with the real street-prices heavily discounted off MSRP at larger dealers.  We'll know soon enough.

I've already reconciled myself to the fact that my last couple of Atlas-O "new purchases" will be the CZ domed observation car and perhaps a CZ baggage car.  After that, I'll just watch Atlas-O from the sidelines.

The Standard Gauge portion of my new layout will be Gargraves track with Ross turnouts. And the O-Gauge portion will use Atlas-O track which I purchased years ago.

If I were to build a brand new O-Gauge layout, it would be Gargraves/Ross without even looking any further.

David

But they're not in stock...  So it's possible the new price may increase going forward upon receipt of new inventory.

David

Boy do I agree with that.  Support the companies here in the states, plus as you stated the combination is darn near bullet proof.....oh and it's available.

David:

    To be fair, you need to compare prices paid at one of our OGR forum sponsors, Charles Ro., not MSRP.

                 Atlas O (Charles Ro)      Ross Custom Switches

O72/054          73.95 and 73.95          79.95- 89.95

#5          90.95          79.95 (#4)

Double Slip      185.00                       199.95

40" Rigid         17.95          11.99 (Only 29")

0108 Curve     10.99 (Trainworld)         8.99  (0112)

So, when you get down to it, Atlas is in line with Ross, as an example. The marketing people at these various manufacturers do this same kind of pricing comparison frequently to make sure their pricing is at least "in the ball park" with comparable manufacturers.

The prices you quoted are MSRP, and yes, they probably went up; most do. But, most of us do not pay MSRP for most things (We do not pay sticker price for a car, for example.) We comparison shop.

So, from the price comparison above, I don't think Atlas O has priced themselves out of the business. They still make a fine product at comparable pricing with similar fine products.

John Knapp

Erie, not Eerie

I hear ya, John.  But this price hike is so new, even Atlas-O's own website (not the store) hasn't been updated to reflect new MSRP's in the price list yet.  So it'a quite possible dealers will be adjusting their street-prices somewhat when they receive new inventory.

That's why I didn't do a direct comparison between Atlas-O and Ross street prices.   We'll know that metric soon enough.

David

John, of course most folks don't buy at MSRP.  The point of illustrating the MSRP hike was simply to highlight the range of the MSRP increase.  Whether or not the street-prices increase by the same amount is yet to be seen.  This price increase may have just occurred on Nov 1st.

Who knows... this may just be a move by Atlas-O to bump MSRP's like Lionel did in their latest catalog, where they have basic diesel switcher locomotives now listing at a whopping $650 MSRP but large dealers are taking pre-orders at $460 or so -- a street price increase up from around $410 (give or take a few dollars) for the previous release of similar models...  but a street-price increase nonetheless.

Definitely worth watching this space on the Atlas-O front, 'cause it's very clear the direction they're moving.  Nobody is getting a great bang for their dollar buying new trains nowadays.  The real bang for the dollar is on the secondary market for products in excellent, like-new, or MINT condition.  

David

 I have walked into deals on Atlas cars that I couldn't pass up. After getting them, I realized they are some of the best cars I own.

 I have the 89' flats that seem to me still to be state of the art in both quality and detail. Metal cars that track well and look great.

 I have the Articulated auto cars and they are awesome. I just still stare at them running.

 Their tank cars are my most sought after pieces.

I saw their newer big box cars at Jim Z's house and was again amazed at the detail.

I can't believe the thrashing they always seem to get every year when the prices go up. I hope they can survive and keep manufacturing some of the best products in O.

 Their track has been the standard in several scales.

I need to get a couple of their newer box cars and the new flats.

I do own several Atlas O freight cars of various types and they are very nice, no question with that.  The other issue with things is the availability of the products as well.  I know Atlas had to switch manufacturers and such which played into things.  It's like anything else, you need to shop around and find the best value but there is something to be said for a product that's made here in the USA and that functions as well as the Ross switches.

I think Rocky Mountaineer has it on this one. They have been out of stock for a while now and when they get re-stocked I think we will be paying the new prices. Charles Ro and the others just haven't updated their prices yet.

With Atlas updating their website, maybe the are getting close to having stock again? When I ordered some parts recently, Atlas told me their track and switches would be available again toward the end of the year. Too bad the price went up so much. 

Go to JD's website.  He has the new MSRP plugged in already with his new prices listed. 

Those numbers from Charles Ro sound current...Based on the numbers on Atlas's website.

That looks much better. Sure hope they stay that way for a while! Guess I was wrong earlier about Charles Ro not having updated prices, looks like he has updated.

Really makes Ross and Gargraves made in USA look good.....

Guys, I haven't purchased new Atlas-O track for awhile.  But it's possible that the street-prices won't change all that much despite the recent MSRP increase.  This is what I was alluding to earlier about Atlas-O possibly following in Lionel's footsteps using inflated MSRP's.  The real question (which we don't know the answer yet) is whether or not there's been a dealer cost increase.  If the street-prices haven't changed all that much, then probably not... and this is all just smoke and mirrors with the appearance of larger dealers offering deeply discounted prices off MSRP.

A $75 street-price on a $105 MSRP turnout is roughly a 30% discount off MSRP.  So this is sounding more and more like the same game Lionel is playing... namely, give dealers the leeway to charge more if they can get it.  But nobody wants to play that card (yet), so they're keeping street-prices competitive on the impression of deep discounting.

Could be a different landscape, however, if Atlas-O decides to boost dealer cost down the road.  And the inflated MSRP gives dealers the headroom to charge more and still have a somewhat respectable discount off MSRP.  Gotta love all this smoke-and-mirrors relative to pricing. 

David

I believe Atlas offers a larger discount to dealers on track and assessories than on rolling stock and motive power. The new pricing allows dealers to move existing stock quicker but in time dealer prices will rise as new stock is purchased. The foreseeable future appears to be limited production at ever increasing prices.Sunset already sells direct only[it works for them] and they do have a fine product at a higher price point than the discounted big three.As a long time 2 railer I am a big fan of the Atlas Master line series especially the latest modern projects, as I do not buy in large quantities[not a collector]I am willing to pay for this quality [Scott move on to modern diesels next year] obiviously your budget dictates how you approach the hobby but ever rising prices are a fact of life and the MFGs stay in business as long as their products sell.

I bought  Atlas-O 2-rail products (mainly freight cars but some track sections also) at discounted prices but I have also paid full MSRP for some like the Gunderson 5-car sets & some 40’ containers since I was picky about a specific road name.

I love discounts but in many cases I don’t realize how good their offerings are until another member on this forum posts the photos of their models or I see them on a train show layout. Since these newer items were produced in fewer quantities, by the time I realized that I want one, most of the dealers who offer discounts no longer had it. Since I wanted it badly I ended up paying the maximum retail price in addition to the shipping costs or taxes. But I was fortunate that these hobby shops didn’t sell Atlas-O products (that I was interested in) over the MSRP unlike with some Lionel Standard-O freight cars.

So while paying full MSRP is annoying at times, it gives me an opportunity to get some long sold-out models from dealers who don’t offer discounts & hence carry a larger inventory of new-old-stock, when I decide to buy a specific model, some made before I got into O-Scale.

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

 If any one has these cars FS, especially in two rail, I'll buy them!

8257-1 HOKX

8257-2 HOKX

8257-3 HOKX

8257-4 HOKX

3^rd Run Dec 2007 Occidental, Hooker

8263-1 HOKX 132503

8263-2 HOKX 132589

Probably won't happen, but I wish Ross & Gargraves would make something with solid rails. Unfortunately I got hooked on the solid rails when first re-entering the hobby a few years ago. So many track selections now from years ago, I was overwhelmed at the time. I may try some Ross switches and Gargraves track someday, but I have a lot already tied up in Atlas track, which I really do like, switches and switch machines included (so far anyway). On side note, my LHS just became a dealer for Ross this year, they had not carried them previously.

Edit: c.sam's post reminded me of another thing I really like about he Atlas track, the nickel silver rails, compared to steel in the others. I think that is also a great selling point, no rust.

Not to sidetrack the thread, but possibly somewhat related. At the OGR York meeting, one small manufacturer (I forget who, it was in Mr Muffin's meeting notes thread) announced they were moving manufacturing back to the US and 'lowering their prices by several hundred dollars'. I think this was a small manufacturer making brass trains. I don't know what these cost before, but that is a significant price reduction. If they can do it, no reason others can't do the same and maybe we will get better pricing to boot?

None of us like to see price increases, but if Atlas O were to introduce a new intermodal car (just an example), the demand would be there.

Atlas track compared to Ross/Gargraves is a good example of the preverbal 'apples & oranges' debate. Ross/GG has a great reputation (well-deserved) but those of us who prefer a more scale sized 3 rail track have only Atlas and ScaleTrax to choose from (unless you count Lionel's Super-O). The oversized ties are the killer for me with Ross and I much prefer the solid rail to the hollow steel rails.

Hopefully Atlas will be able to continue to offer us a good supply of their track soon!

I bought a good quantity of Atlas 2-rail track a few years ago, before I took a break from the hobby. I wish I had bought more switches and 40" flextrack. It seems like demand has risen for 2- rail O gauge track and rolling stock- is that observation just me or am I correct?

Geno

Ditto to rtr12.  Like a lot of other products, no matter how good it works, if it is hard

to get past the 1920's tube rail appearance?

I am definitely no expert on the subjects here (especially not 2 rail O), but Atlas had some manufacturing difficulties the last couple of years and had to find new factories to make their track and other items. This may have something to do with the shortages of their track. I know they have been out of 3 rail switches and some other pieces for quite some time now and some pieces have been difficult to find. They are supposed to be getting new shipments in by years end. Hopefully track items will once again be readily available by that time.

There may be a positive aspect to the rising prices of all Chinese products. If you have to pay exorbitant prices for the foreign switches then the alternatives are Made in USA, Ross and Gargraves products.  I use both brands, have about 25 turnouts, straights, curves and over 500' ft of track on my layout. Never had a single issue with quality. Both brands interchange, join together perfectly and everything has worked flawlessly. Don't just empty your wallet needlessly. Shop, price around and compare.

Hopefully this trend of increasing manufacturing costs overseas will continue- then maybe the Big Three will see the wisdom in bring back some of the manufacturing to America. It may not make it cheaper, but at least it will cut down drastically on shipping costs and make the product available immediately (no more waiting for container ships). Gargraves has made their product for 74 years in the US- odd that no other major track manufacturer could do the same thing.

Geno

Yes it is....makes you wonder.

I have always thought that a lot of the big move to overseas manufacturing was a follow the leader or monkey see, monkey do type thing. I don't think a lot of thought goes into to some of these major corporate decisions. They just see a competitor doing it so they jump on the wagon and have to do it too. The ones that gave serious thought to the moves are probably the ones that stayed here and are doing just fine.

The company is SMR.

Jeff C

You don't have to be an accountant to know that any train manufacturer isn't going to make any track, rolling stock, or engine unless they can do it and make a profit. Since pretty much every type of steam or diesel engine, most rolling stock, and track system has been on the market since 2000-2002, each of the Big Three has already invested in the tooling to make each product and are now making good profits each time a particular engine or car is reissued. Electronics upgrades are made with minimal mods to the tooling, so that doesn't eat into the profit margin that much.

Each company has steadily increased prices on the same products over the last 15 years, so they're covering their operating costs and profit margins. My guess is that Atlas let their inventory go low so they could increase demand for their track, knowing full well that returning customers would still buy their track, even if it cost 20-25% more. If the Big Three keep increasing prices, they will put themselves out of the affordable track segment and open up space in the market for new brands.

Geno