Auxiliary water tender?

I run UP auxiliary tenders behind my pair of FEF3's, one grey and one black. I also have a N&W auxiliary tender I run behind a 3rd Rail Jawn Henry.

 

I like them very much but I agree that they can be very pricey both in the aftermarket and in the latest Lionel and MTH catalog offerings. 

 

However, my main problem with the latest Lionel and MTH models is that they are just a re-issue of old style AWTs and not the modified versions that are used in the UP excursion trains of today. Here's the MTH version of the "Jim Adams" tender:

 

 

 

 

And here's the real thing, which is a very different configuration and indeed has a separately mounted flag display:

 

 

 

I'm not a rivet counter but I won't pay for something that's really not representative of the prototype. I have found someone who can produce O scale 3D printed shells of the present-day modified tenders for less than the current MSRP of Lionel/MTH versions. Should have these early in the New Year - watch this space.

I have one just because UP did run them sometimes.  You are right about the cost - seems unreasonably high to me, but I bought one anyway.  I don't run it that often frankly.  I sits on the shelf a lot. 

I own the N&W I bought years ago which will now run behind the 765 in excursion mode.

 

I also purchase the Lionel one to go behind the Big Boy.  While some say it's not prototypical I just don't care.  Hoping to get a gray UP for behind my 844 as well.

I currently have four N&W and conceivably will buy a couple of more. I especially like the Lionel TMCC version.

 

Gilly

It really depends on the era you are trying to model. The N&W Railway did actually use many, many, auxiliary water "canteens" in the rater steam era. However, the UP and SP never used those big yellow or Daylight painted auxiliary water tenders back in the steam days. Both the UP and SP 4449 only began using auxiliary water tenders in the modes "excursion era", i.e. after say 1984.

I run Lionel's first rendition of the Black UP Auxiliary Tender (TMCC controlled) behind my JLC 3985 (it is a perfect compliment).

 

I have two of the newer ones on order for my VL Big Boy:

 

MTH UP Flag

Lionel Yellow Aux (non-flag)

 

Best,

Michael

I love them and to run them with my big steam.

 

 

I would guess that the auxiliary tenders probably ran behind the huge Mallet, Big Boy and articulated steam locos pulling large coal trains over the mountains back in the day. Those locos had large appetites for water, fuel and traveling on a route that went through rough terrain probably limited water refilling stops. Trouble is that on a home layout most of us don't have the room to properly display and run long engine  consists with a extra tender. I've never seen one running on a layout.

You got that right... bang for the buck I rather have another TMCC engine.

I bought one to go with the VL Big Boy, and will most likely always run them together once I have them both.  The only thing I'm not 100% happy about is that they are all yellow.

Rockstar1989,

Ditto your comments. Those aux water tenders are way too expensive for my budget.

 

Hancock: when you say that someone is making a more prototypically correct shell, are you implying that one would have to first buy the Lionel Aux tender....and then swap out just the shell for the new, correct one?

 >>>The UP never used aux tenders, until after the mid 1980s with their "excursion era" passenger moves.<<

 

Here's an old shot of the FEF with Lionels water tender. IMO, it really adds to the look I suppose even when its not prototypically correct.

Joe

 

 

Love 'em. Looks cool!

I have a grey tender and ordered the new flag tender to run behind my big UP ENGINES. 

 

I'm interested also.  Please keep us posted and updated.  I was going to make the 'correct' AWT out of brass, but I'd buy something if available.

 

Though I have several of the AWTs, both Lionel & MTH, I never plan to run them on my UP steam fleet. Maybe a few 'excursion' runs but that'd be it.  

 

I was on the fence a long time before I purchased my first AWT.  They're very nice models and I accept them for what they are.  Nothing more, nothing less.  They're very well constructed and heavy items.

 

I do think they're overpriced but that's my opinion.  

 

Let's hope Lionel does a better job of packaging the new AWT over the old TMCC versions-those are hard to find without broken railings.  Hope that don't sound negative, I"m sure they have.  If I remember, the black Legacy UP AWT matching the VL Challenger had much better packaging and I don't ever remember seeing them with broken railings out of the box.

 

Enjoy your new AWT!

One of the coolest things about modeling the UP 844 or the NKP 765 or any other steam engine that is still up and running is that you can either run it the way it was when it was in regular service or you can model/run it the way it is now as an excursion locomotive....and still be "correct/realistic".  Ditto for some first generation diesels. 

 

And you can mix in some modern diesel power as well.  Best of both worlds, IMHO.

 

No. What I have done is to buy the Lionel replacement parts frame, underside details and trucks alone and have the maker produce a shell that fits on them. I did that partly because I wanted these items to match my existing Lionel AWTs, one TMCC and one Legacy, as respects the running gear. See below for a sneak peek photo of the shell as it appears before the finishing process, which I will describe another time after the models are finished. I think that in fact the maker can produce the items I got as parts (and probably in superior detail) by the 3D process; he's done similar work on N and O scale tenders.

 

 

I was intending to post a more detailed account of this project once the models are painted but just to keep you in suspense here's a photo of the maker's O scale 3D printed shell and his earlier N and HO scale finished models plus a better view of the O scale details:

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

FWIW I think that the Legacy AWTs are better constructed than the earlier TMCC versions especially as regards the railings but they are not the same paint scheme.

 

None of these models or the newer versions come cheap. Frankly I balked at paying Lionel's or MTH's prices for their latest issue AWTs because they are recycling existing tooling with new paint schemes and not trying to duplicate the present-day "excursion" tenders. I'm not criticizing the quality of these die-cast models - they are great but they are all one design which is out of date.

That's fantastic, I want one!

 

Can't wait to see the finished model!

i have a grey one to run behind my FEF greyhound.  totally not prototypical, but looks cool.

 

i, too, think they are inordinately expensive.

Just sit tight; they have to be painted and have the decals applied, which is NOT a job for an amateur like me!

Will you also have bodies available to fit on the MTH UP auxiliary frames? I would definitely be interested in one, with or without the American Flag (which ever is easiest to produce).

I'll have to check with the maker but I think he can do just about anything. I'll name him when I have asked for and been given permission to do so, and I'll also explain how this idea started and came to fruition.

 

Excellent! I worked with Jim Adams a LOT, when I was a Contract Fireman on the UP Steam Crew, prior to 2010. I would obviously like a "Jim Adams" aux tank.

Hancock52,

I'd like one of each also.  E-mail me off line as I'd like to follow the progress of this excellent, unique, project!

 

To the OP, sorry we hi-jacked your thread.  Just checked MTH's site and the "Flag' and other AWTs are due in this month.  When I get mine I'll post pictures.

 

Careful searching will find used AWTs for a better price.  I bought a NIB MTH Premier one for $125! If I saw one for a good deal, I picked it up.  I have paid $200 or more for the used Lionel versions though.  At the time, there was no talk of VL BBs or the new MTH models.   

 

When AWTs appear on auctions sites (not just the bay) I always notice they bring about $200+ and they're several bidders.  Seem to be a very popular item and road name doesn't matter.  Ironically, at a recent estate auction, I watched 4 bidders drive the price up to almost MSRP!  Watched this happen again on 2 other AWTs.  I told the losing bidders after the auction to contact me, I'd gladly sell mine for those prices! 

 

 

I would be interested in the flag model as well.  Just ley me know when.

Will do, rest assured. I am very keen to see the maker's finished version(s).

Hi guy's,

Here's a couple of videos of my FEF with an auxiliary tender and a SD70ace pulling an excursion train on Alex Malliae's layout.

Enjoy.

Mike R

http://youtu.be/BWXG_dEi_V8
http://youtu.be/MGkthSNV6dM
http://youtu.be/OU_L-V1XxJs

I just finished the refurb on this guy. I originally bought it to run with my class J But I wanted an auxiliary tender to run with my Blue Comet consist. (Express trucks, total re paint, put some electronics in it with led lights)

Here is my kitbashed Chessie Steam Special Auxiliary Tender.  It was made from a scale Hudson tender plus a shell from a second.  I am making a new one from the prototype tender from a NYC 4-8-2. 

 

Our flag is displayed improperly in this photo. The stars should be on the upper left.

 

These custom tenders look awesome!

 

Allan, did yours derive off of Lionel's Mohawk they did in 1990?

I kind of did for this one based on pictures I found online.  It is close in size but not exact. My new one will be that exact tender from that engine.

Bobby,

The mounting column for the flag is on the right side in this case so I believe the flag is correct. If you could see the other side of this flag then the stars would be in the upper left location.

On a moving object the correct position for the blue part of the US flag is toward the front so that it looks like it is blowing in the wind.

 

 

Our Flag has TWO sides, the Blue Field with the Stars, goes in the Upper corner AGAINST the POLE, whether the Blue Field and Stars are on the Right or Left depends on which side of the Flag you are viewing.

 

 It is more COMMON for an IMAGE of our Flag to be depicted with the pole to the left and the flag streaming right.

 

Doug