Auxiliary Water Tenders

Tommy posted:

Did any railroad regularly use an auxialiary water tender or tank car with their steam locomotives?

Yes.

The N&W was probably the biggest user of "canteens".

.......as did CPR, CNR, Burlington, IC, D&RGW, NP, MoPac, CGW, PRR (where water facilities had been removed - end of steam era), NYC (in Canada), C&S, FW&D, GN, B&O, DM&IR, D&SL, SP.  

Big Jim posted:

The N&W was probably the biggest user of "canteens".

Interesting terminology. Is "water bottle" also a term used on real RRs or is that a toy train term?

Thanx for the replies. I was interested for the purpose of modeling. I came across some images and wanted to know how widespread was the practice. I couldn't find 0 models of the tenders.

Overland did the D&RGW auxiliary water car.......used behind L131/132 and L/95/96 2-8-8-2's

MartyE posted:

Big Jim posted:

The N&W was probably the biggest user of "canteens".

Interesting terminology. Is "water bottle" also a term used on real RRs or is that a toy train term?

Never heard that one, but, you know how railfans make up their own terms.

Suspect Illinois Central was a close second to N&W in use of auxiliary water cars.  And probably for the same reason:    not stopping for water accelerated freight train speed and increased tonnage, as starting heavy freight trains was a slow, laborious process, that sapped horsepower. Recall that steam locomotive peak horsepower was reached at a MPH perhaps 10 MPH less then driver diameter. A lot more work was accomplished at that speed.

Numerous pictures are extant showing IC 4-8-2's, 2-10-2's and 2-8-2's with water cars, highballing mainline manifests and coal trains, as well as secondary lines covered by 2-8-2's.

You made me look. It had to be at the very end of the steam era. Here's a pic of the N&W 612 J sporting not only an auxiliary water tender, but a doghouse too. Sad, dirty end for a beautiful locomotive.

The little narrow gauge railroad, The Uintah Railway, had built 7 rectangular steel water cars. (I have a G-gauge Uintah #021 water car for my #50 Mallet pulled gilsonite train.)

By 1939 six of these up for sale, 017-021 and 023. In May 1940 D&RGW bought all six to run on their narrow gauge, renumbering them 0465 thru 0470.

Big Jim posted:

MartyE posted:

Big Jim posted:

The N&W was probably the biggest user of "canteens".

Interesting terminology. Is "water bottle" also a term used on real RRs or is that a toy train term?

Never heard that one, but, you know how railfans make up their own terms.

Actually "water bottle" was a B&O term for a canteen or auxiliary tender. They were converted tank cars.
Used mainly on the Wheeling Division in the last years of steam.
See JJ Young's classic article in the Winter 1976 issue of Railfan Magazine.

Last time I looked, 611 still had her doghouse "feet".

jaygee posted:

Last time I looked, 611 still had her doghouse "feet".

...and has very occasionally operated with one.  The doghouse made an appearance at the photo freight at Spencer last year.

I actually remember seeing the Southern Railway, use an Single Done Tank car behind the 4501 in the Early 60's, before they acquired an former N&W Auxiliary Tender, the picture is in the 4501 Book that was published by Kalmback publishing.

I love this image.  One guesses the mail contract was the last customer on the branch.  How to make it work?  Use a worn out ancient 10-wheeler, shut down the infrastructure down the branch, stack up the coal (like 765 did a couple of years ago) and drag along your water supply!  Making it work!

Source for the photo is http://www.rrpicturearchives.n...ture.aspx?id=1437245

1956, Courtright, ON.

More information on this 56 year old locomotive and the environs here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...entral_1290_and_1291

Thanks BBUNGE! Exactly the kind of modeling image I was looking for.

On the 765, we call it the "A Tank." (Auxiliary Tank)

As for that horrible, purple picture above, I wonder why no one fixed it in Photoshop before posting that awful thing...

The July 1987 "Model Railroader" featured excellent drawings of an Illinois Central 1500-series 2-8-2, including it's auxiliary water car ("cistern" to IC engine men). These cars were also used with IC 4-8-2's and 2-10-2's ("Centrals", in IC parlance)

OGR Webmaster posted:

On the 765, we call it the "A Tank." (Auxiliary Tank)

As for that horrible, purple picture above, I wonder why no one fixed it in Photoshop before posting that awful thing...

probably because we are not as good with photoshop as you are!

jaygee posted:

Last time I looked, 611 still had her doghouse "feet".

There are very faint marks on top of the tender where it used to sit, but that's it.  Leaving any sort of mount up there is a tripping hazard. 

In the Diesel era, BN was big into fuel tenders.  UP and SP used one.  I think CSX tested one on AC traction locomotives to keep the same weight on the locomotive.

UP used old steam tenders on the turbines.

After reading the post "Chessie Steamer" above, I wondered what it's big Aux tender was, I thought it looked like NYC, and sure enough, it was from a Mowhawk!

.

 I found this photo at a site called "Theme Trains. com", lots of interesting stuff there

Ed

The CHESSIE STEAM SPECIAL aux tank, behind RDG 2101, used to sit in the small terminal in Van Wert, Ohio, for diesel fuel, pre-1975.   In 2017, this same tender sits in the NATIONAL NEW YORK CENTRAL MUSEUM in Elkhart, Indiana.

Ed Mullan posted:

After reading the post "Chessie Steamer" above, I wondered what it's big Aux tender was, I thought it looked like NYC, and sure enough, it was from a Mowhawk!

.

 I found this photo at a site called "Theme Trains. com", lots of interesting stuff there

Ed

Is this tender currently in Elkhart, Indiana behind the tender that's behind the Mowhawk there?

Sam Jumper posted:

Ed Mullan posted:

After reading the post "Chessie Steamer" above, I wondered what it's big Aux tender was, I thought it looked like NYC, and sure enough, it was from a Mowhawk!

.

 I found this photo at a site called "Theme Trains. com", lots of interesting stuff there

Ed

Is this tender currently in Elkhart, Indiana behind the tender that's behind the Mowhawk there?

I'm pretty sure that that NYC Mohawk in Indiana has he own correct tender, as that was how she was saved & donated. Thus, the auxiliary tender from the Chess Steam Specials is not coupled to the NYC (3001?) in Elkhart, IN. 

Judging from the Google overhead views, I believe it is parked right behind 3001's tender.

Dieselbob posted:

Judging from the Google overhead views, I believe it is parked right behind 3001's tender.

Now, that sounds more logical.

mark s posted:

The July 1987 "Model Railroader" featured excellent drawings of an Illinois Central 1500-series 2-8-2, including it's auxiliary water car ("cistern" to IC engine men). These cars were also used with IC 4-8-2's and 2-10-2's ("Centrals", in IC parlance)

You are correct Mark, as seeing the IC come and go at Louisville, Ky as a kid, you would nearly always see, as you said, the 2-10-2's, 4-8-2's, now and then on a Mikado.....This seemed to be more prevalent in the mid 50's, assuming longer freight trains during that period, and minimizing water stops along the way.

L&N, C&O east, and Southern east/west, Monon and B&O North no added cistern cars, or at least nothing that I ever saw, but I wasn't out there everyday......!

The Chessie Steam Special Aux Mohawk tender is at Indiana, in a line with other equipment, here's a photo as it appears now.

Shame to see this tender, with it's heritage, rusting.

Ed

Ed Mullan posted:

The Chessie Steam Special Aux Mohawk tender is at Indiana, in a line with other equipment, here's a photo as it appears now.

Shame to see this tender, with it's heritage, rusting. 

it was also used with 2101 on the Freedom Train:

I stopped at Elkhart on an Amtrak train once, and I could see the museum across the tracks. As a big Freedom Train fan, it killed me to know this was there, out of view, and I was that close but didn't have the time to get off and go over there.

Didn't Santa Fe ever used aux water tenders with their large and small steam locomotives.

SantaFe3751 posted:

Didn't Santa Fe ever used aux water tenders with their large and small steam locomotives.

I have never seen any photographic evidence or roster information to indicate Santa Fe used auxiliary tenders.

Rusty

Rusty Traque posted:

SantaFe3751 posted:

Didn't Santa Fe ever used aux water tenders with their large and small steam locomotives.

I have never seen any photographic evidence or roster information to indicate Santa Fe used auxiliary tenders.

Rusty

You'd think that given the distances on their western end of the system and difficulties getting water in some spots, Santa Fe would have used aux tenders.

I'm not saying they did, just saying I wonder if they ever considered doing so and wondering why they never did.

Let's not over emphasize this auxiliary tender thing.  If you look at all of the steam engine photos in Trains in the 40's, 50's and 60's, it will be very difficult to find one.