Bad speakers

Scott my point exactly.  I was going to get one of the fatboys to try in a MTH install.  An experienced Lio and MTH tech said don't bother.  G

I'm not sure what scenario you are referring to, but there's no Lionel TMCC or Legacy engine designed to use two 8ohm speakers in series. Perhaps I'm missing your point?

EDIT: I re-read some of the earlier posts and now gather the 16ohm reference is in regard to MTH sound boards. I misunderstood.

Rudy

If you are switching two 16 ohm parallel wired speakers to two series wired speakers, they would be 4 ohm speakers. Or you might have better luck with one good 8 ohm speaker with a nice enclosure.  

Eric

Rudy, No problem.  I have tried a few different configurations to get around MTH 16ohm speakers for the older PS-2 5V tech.  Just don't work as well as the single 16ohm.

I was just try to point out parallel wiring to impedance match  seems to work better than series matching.  G

Eric, I think you are misunderstanding me.  I understand series versus parallel wiring.

The point was to find a suitable replacement for a single 16ohm speaker.  Series wiring 2 8 ohms doesn't work well (each speaker is under driven).  So it would be better to use 2 32 ohm in parallel.  Problem is 32ohm are not easy to find either, and getting 2 speakers into an engine designed for one is not easy.

You brought up the issue of dual speaker impedance matching.  It doesn't work well unless parallel wired.

MTH 4 ohms speakers seem to work well and there are plenty available in all sizes.  If some one wanted to try to improve on 4 ohm speaker sound that would be much easier.  Use 2 8ohms in parallel.  That might improve the audio.  Similar to what Lionel does.

BUT, the original question is how to improve on the 16ohm system.  Not so easy it seems.  G

I have to disagree here. The problem with these model train audio amps is they are voltage limited. If you double the impedance you will have to double the voltage to drive each speaker to rated power. Its not unlike car audio even though they use 4 ohm drivers. To get around the 12 volt limitation you need DC to DC convertors to step up the voltage to attain triple digit wattages.

Pete

That is why I first asked what the driver boards were rated. I was surprised the 5V board had a 16 ohm min driver. I just wonder if it can actually handle 8 Ohm without issues. Or perhaps it just needs a heat sink added to handle 8ohm or even 4 ohm.

But without more detail, once John shared the specs, it showed how limited you are with swapping speakers for that 5v driver.

Guys

 Any thoughts about this 16 ohm speaker?  Looks a bit better than the 85 cent one. 2-3 watts, Mylar cone, better lows.  A little shorter too (0.63").

http://www.parts-express.com/v...aker-16-ohm--292-540

More specs with the frequency response:

http://www.visaton.com/en/indu...erfest/k50wp_16.html

Bob

It sure looks better than the first one you posted. As noted above if have room for an enclosure that will make a significant difference too even if its only as big as a paint can top.

In addition to better frequency response, the sensitivity is 2db better. The bigger that number the better. It means for a given power input you get a given volume out. You can hear a 2db difference.

Pete

Guys

 Any thoughts about this 16 ohm speaker?  Looks a bit better than the 85 cent one. 2-3 watts, Mylar cone, better lows.  A little shorter too (0.63").

 

Bob see my reply from yesterday. Although I didn't try the 16ohm I did try the 8ohm Visaton. Maybe you'll have better luck than me but I wouldn't recommend these to anyone. The sound quality was terrible and worse than the OEM speakers. 

Scott

Scott

thanks

I ordered one.  I'll compare both and post an update.  Not holding my breath . . .

Bob

John only provided impedance rating, some audio amps can be used with different speakers but have different wattage ratings.  If you want to investigate the audio amps you can look at these used in MTH and Lionel:

TDA7057

TPA2000D

LM386

LM4861

Pete I don't disagree about the voltage rating, but I have not seen the same success with multiple speakers versus 1.

There are some very clear and loud 5V engines using some inexpensive speakers.  They sound great.

I just completed a upgrade of a PS-1 F3 and the new 4 ohm speaker with 3V SF also is clear and booming loud.

I would also agree the fuel tank and shell enclosure enhance this sound.

Other engines seem to be duds.

Test the magnet of MTH 4 ohm 4W and 16ohm 5W speakers.  I have not seen any as strong.  It is difficult mounting fuel tanks, or soldering, or installing screws around them because of the magnet strength.  It that is a sign of quality.

I think too many folks just remember those early .25 and .5w speakers from the 90s and early 00.  Both Lionel and MTH.   G

Scott,

I tried the 16 Ohm Visaton Speaker.  Poor sound like the 8 Ohm ones you tried.   Tinny sound, no lows.  So I installed the $0.85 one that you can get from Amazon and Ebay. 

http://tinyurl.com/mzhkzup

IMO sound is equal to the stock MTH speaker.  I put it in an MTH RS3.  It is about 1/32" too tall.   The fuel tank/enclosure screws down just fine, but it would be difficult to seal the enclosure to boost the bass response.

Bob