B&O P7 information resource.

Davy- Very nice coverage on the P7 locos. The video sequence of the 5300 you linked is from the video (DVD) I produced titled “Reflections of American Railroading” which features film by Dr. Howard Blackburn. It is still available from us at herronrail.com .

Several P7 and other classes ran their last miles in passenger service between Louisville, KY and Cincinnati, OH in 1956-57 and that is where Doc Blackburn did his chasing in southern Indiana just north of Louisville. I remember them coming into Louisville back then as well.

-Jim Herron

Hi Jim,

          Thanks for the thumbs up.Well I know how frustrating it was when I started out trying to find out about the P7s. I intially thought the whole class would have remained basically the same throughout their lives but far from it. In the end hardly any two were identicle.So I hope it will help other modellers interested in the class and save them the digging and question asking for info like I did over many years. One thing I'd love to know is exactly when and where each loco ended its days and where they were scrapped. As for the film footage ,I still have that video myself. All the best   DAVY  

Davy,

Fantastic site!  From someone who's Grandfather worked in the paint shops when those beauties were being painted green with the gold hand lettering and striping, I'm really happy to see so much information on the P7s!

If my Grandfather was still with us, he'd probably make that his homepage!

Love the streamlined version the best. Nice web site, loads of information. Now if Lionel could do the SL version, hmmm!!

Dave

Hi Guys,thanks for the approval. Dave...there are streamlined Cincinattian versions out there in O gauge not by Lionel though .I'm into 2 rail but I bought a 3 rail one on ebay which I intend to convert.Its a beautifull model. Don't have the box to hand to check as its stashed away at present,but I'm sure its Weaver. By the way what Lionel sells as "pucker" P7s aren't P7s at all, and their paint scheme is bogus too. The lionel models to me look like a hybrid Southern PS4 cum USRA heavy pacific,whatever.... they ain't right for B&O P7s. A source for a half decent P7c is the old 3-rail Williams pacific model,catalogue number 4949,These come up cheap on ebay from time to time.

 They are very basic models with some inbuilt detail mistakes but with a bit of work they can make a decent looking P7c. The 3 rail undercarriage has all box-poc drivers so this limits you to two engines, 5314 or 5316 . The valve gear is very basic and the loco sits too high on the chassis but its easy enough to drop to a correct height. For two rail enthusiasts its easy to mount the loco bodies onto later Williams Pennsy K4 2 rail chassis or similar. I've attached a picture of an old Williams 4949 and one of my own which has had a Williams Pennsy K4 2 rail chassis slung under it. Some of the Pennsy detail has to be removed from the chassis /cylinders etc yet,but by the time this model is finished it will make a very convincing P7c. These old Williams 4949 models were produced by Samhongsa and the loco body and tender are pretty much identicle to the more accurate and more expensive Samhongsa Westside models.However the Westside model has inbuilt mistakes too. 3rd rail are to produce P7s in 2013. As far as I'm aware it will be based on P7c 5314,all box-pok with a large 12 wheel tender. I don't know if they intend to do other variants.

 I hope so because like I said,only two P7cs had all box pocs 5314 and 5316,and one of the Cincinattians.The rest of the class were either all standard spoked drivers or a mix.    DAVY

Dave,

i know that Lionel's p7's have not been the best but I think they couldn't screw up the SL version that much. Of course never say never.  I like to collect streamline locomotives from various railroads and to me the Southern and the B&O had some of the best.  

Thank you for your detailed response,

dave

Hi David,  heres an O gauge Weaver 3 rail Cincinattian ,beautifull model, with sound and smoke...  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h82lT5ji2y8 I have one just like this.

          Cheers  DAVY

PS in contrast a Lionel bogus P7 .....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMbnAVFr9Qk

I've had two of the 4949's that I finally got out and wanted to get running.  I have the 3 rail engine assembled and running.  It really does sit highoff the mechanism.  You'd said it was easy to lower, how did you lower the engine?  I think it would take quite a bit of modification to the steamchest. 

My other engine is a two rail or converted two rail.  I bought them both used.  The two railk engine is missing some valve gear (I bought it that way) and that doesn't seem to be avaialble anywhere.  The gear box on it was bad too and I replaced it with a NWSL gearbox and sprung the drivers but never put it back further than that.  Have you found a source for valve gear for that engine?

Thanks!

Hi Guys, haven't been into my P7s for ages now nor my O gauge stuff in general for one reason and another.So may brain isn't in P7 mode this morning ...forgive me, but  I have seen a beautifull as-built green P7 but in 2 rail.I think it was a Westside model by Samhonghsa but I've never seen a 3 rail version.  Incidentally guys, as an aside ,there was one P7 that did run in black. 106 (previously 5308) was in a crossing accident late 1956. She was repaired and outshopped in black for the last few months of her life.She was the only P7 ever to run in black apparently and only for a few months as she was retired in 57.She had graphited smokebox face and stack. There is photographic and video shots of her at this time that backs this up. She sported an 8 wheel tender and had boxpok central drivers with standard spokes ondriving axles 1 and 3.

Incidentally, the cheap and cheerfull Wiliams 4949 is basically accurate but has the wrong stack for P7c and P7e variants. There is also a mistake in the 4949 tender at the rear, the tank top on these 8 wheel tenders wasn't flush,when these tenders in real life were rebuilt with higher capacity coal bunkers and high curved bunker sides the water tank top stayed put and the rear of the tender was "walled" up as per this photo of the 5300s tender at the B&O museum . The 12 wheel tenders that some P7s had in later life did have flush topped tenders though. The Williams 4949 tenders and even the more expensive westside versions have the same mistake. Curiously though Samhongsa got these tenders exactly right in their HO models. 

Hi Guys, check this set of pics. This is THE best most accurate P7c model on the market to date and its in HO. Everything is exactly right. Note the stack and the tender rear etc. beautifull model.... and its MINE !!    (oops....sorry one mistake....the stack should be graphited as per smokebox face not blue.)

Here are a couple of shots of my O Scale 2 rail B&O P7 5314, built, painted and hand lettered by Bill Lenoir.

-JH

Here are some videos of Lionel's B&O Prseident Harrison P7.

I agree, Lionel can call their model a president if they want  but it definately isn't a P7 and the livery is absolutely bogus too.

speaking of liveries, do you think George (#5300) will ever be returned to it's original olive green?  as much as blue is certainly different for US locomotives, i think the green with red and gold leaf highlights was one of the sharpest paint jobs ever.

Now that's one of the better ideas I've heard on this forum for a while. Then place her under some kind of cover.

Ed

Only thing is guys,5300 never wore the green livery in her present rebuilt state. In here present state she should be plain royal blue with graphite smokebox face and stack. Would be nice to see her under cover....better still if some millionaire railfan decided to refurbushe her and put her back into running order. ...oh well.... we can dream !